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>How do you think you tested for water loss? Over time. I was not dehydrated at the end of the month, but I was 15+ 1bs lighter, and my neck, waist and limbs w

>How do you think you tested for water loss? Over time. I was not dehydrated at the end of the month, but I was 15+ 1bs lighter, and my neck, waist and limbs were slimmer. >do you really think you're the first person to research this? Nope, I have no such illusions. I find though that science _requires_ discussion to move forward. And I found a phenomenon. I can't explain the details, but the results are sound. I think it's simple to test my theory. Stay up all night, don't drink anything, do what you normally do. In the morning, you will not have lost any weight (call it water weight if you want). During sleep, your body does something different. Go take a nap, when you wake you will urinate again, but it will be different. But maybe you can only understand this difference if you are carefully monitoring your weight over an extended period of time? The reason I don't think the carbon dioxide thing is the primary method of weight loss is because of my tests, where your body weight simply does not normalize until after sleeping. I think the majority of the fat (by weight) comes out in urine. But I am just guessing based on my experiments over the past few years. Yep, I am an amateur scientist, but I control my weight now.

deleted 7y ago
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kerkeslager 7y ago
> Over time. I was not dehydrated at the end of the month, but I was 15+ 1bs lighter, and my neck, waist and limbs were slimmer. That establishes what month you lost fat in. It does not establish what time of day you lost fat in. It does not establish that you lost fat through your urine. I totally believe you that you lost weight in a month; I'm not objecting to to that claim. The claims you made that I am objecting to are: 1. That you know what time of day you lost weight in. 2. That you know you lost weight primarily through your urine. You did not control for water weight when testing either of these hypotheses. > I find though that science _requires_ discussion to move forward. No it doesn't. Discussion is sometimes helpful to the scientific method, but it is not a part of it. Science requires sound experimentation, which you have not done. > In the morning, you will not have lost any weight (call it water weight if you want). I don't need to stay up all night to demonstrate that I can lose weight while awake. I just got back from a run and had to go, so I urinated and lost 1.6 lbs according to measuring before and after on my bathroom scale. Since you've given me permission, I'll go ahead and call that water weight. > Go take a nap, when you wake you will urinate again, but it will be different. How will it be different? You've literally provided no explanation whatsoever for why you think there's fat mass in your urine. > But maybe you can only understand this difference if you are carefully monitoring your weight over an extended period of time? I have gathered my weight data almost every day for the last few months, to correlate with a weight training routine. Maybe I could understand the difference if you could explain it to me, but all you've done is just say there is a difference. > The reason I don't think the carbon dioxide thing is the primary method of weight loss is because of my tests, where your body weight simply does not normalize until after sleeping. What do you mean by normalize? > I think the majority of the fat (by weight) comes out in urine. Why do you think this? > But I am just guessing based on my experiments over the past few years. Yep, I am an amateur scientist, but I control my weight now. You don't get to call yourself even an amateur scientist if you refuse to even consider very obvious confounding factors. Science is about isolating phenomena, and if you haven't even measured the heaviest thing coming out of your body (water) then you can't claim to have isolated any information about lighter substances leaving your body. What you're doing is not science. I'm happy for you that you're controlling your weight, though. Good job.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  This is getting too long to respond to all of these. So I will just address your first points: >1. That you know what time of day you lost weight in. I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) >2. That you know you lost weight primarily through your urine. >You did not control for water weight when testing either of these hypotheses. It is well understood method to weigh yourself every morning to ensure you aren't measuring water weight loss. Feel free to argue against this standard, it's not my personal belief. I do believe doctors and physical trainers, etc... all use this standard.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) I'm pretty sure you've been clear. Your idea is: 1. Fat is processed into fat waste at some point. 2. Fat waste comes out in urine in the morning. 2 is almost completely wrong, and you've provided no evidence for that assertion. > It is well understood method to weigh yourself every morning to ensure you aren't measuring water weight loss. Feel free to argue against this standard, it's not my personal belief. I do believe doctors and physical trainers, etc... all use this standard. In a scientific experiment, you control for a confounding factor by isolating the phenomena you are measuring from another phenomena that might screw up your measurements. If you're measuring your weight every day, the confounding factor is the weight of things that aren't you: water/food/waste. So you separate out weighing you and weighing the water/food/waste by weighing yourself when there's the least water/food/waste in your system. So this is how you control the measurement of your weight for water weight. If you're measuring the weight of waste products that come from processing fat, the confounding factors are still water/food/waste in your system, but the waste products that come from processing fat are mixed in with them, and there's no way to measure them separately. Measuring in the morning doesn't fix this problem. So this doesn't control the measurement of the waste products that come from processing fat's weight for water weight. It is well understood that 85% of fat weight lost is exhaled as carbon dioxide, so if you're going to tell me what is well understood, you might actually want to find out more of what is well understood.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

kerkeslager 7y ago

> Over time. I was not dehydrated at the end of the month, but I was 15+ 1bs lighter, and my neck, waist and limbs were slimmer. That establishes what month you lost fat in. It does not establish what time of day you lost fat in. It does not establish that you lost fat through your urine. I totally believe you that you lost weight in a month; I'm not objecting to to that claim. The claims you made that I am objecting to are: 1. That you know what time of day you lost weight in. 2. That you know you lost weight primarily through your urine. You did not control for water weight when testing either of these hypotheses. > I find though that science _requires_ discussion to move forward. No it doesn't. Discussion is sometimes helpful to the scientific method, but it is not a part of it. Science requires sound experimentation, which you have not done. > In the morning, you will not have lost any weight (call it water weight if you want). I don't need to stay up all night to demonstrate that I can lose weight while awake. I just got back from a run and had to go, so I urinated and lost 1.6 lbs according to measuring before and after on my bathroom scale. Since you've given me permission, I'll go ahead and call that water weight. > Go take a nap, when you wake you will urinate again, but it will be different. How will it be different? You've literally provided no explanation whatsoever for why you think there's fat mass in your urine. > But maybe you can only understand this difference if you are carefully monitoring your weight over an extended period of time? I have gathered my weight data almost every day for the last few months, to correlate with a weight training routine. Maybe I could understand the difference if you could explain it to me, but all you've done is just say there is a difference. > The reason I don't think the carbon dioxide thing is the primary method of weight loss is because of my tests, where your body weight simply does not normalize until after sleeping. What do you mean by normalize? > I think the majority of the fat (by weight) comes out in urine. Why do you think this? > But I am just guessing based on my experiments over the past few years. Yep, I am an amateur scientist, but I control my weight now. You don't get to call yourself even an amateur scientist if you refuse to even consider very obvious confounding factors. Science is about isolating phenomena, and if you haven't even measured the heaviest thing coming out of your body (water) then you can't claim to have isolated any information about lighter substances leaving your body. What you're doing is not science. I'm happy for you that you're controlling your weight, though. Good job.

RobertRoberts 7y ago
This is getting too long to respond to all of these. So I will just address your first points: >1. That you know what time of day you lost weight in. I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) >2. That you know you lost weight primarily through your urine. >You did not control for water weight when testing either of these hypotheses. It is well understood method to weigh yourself every morning to ensure you aren't measuring water weight loss. Feel free to argue against this standard, it's not my personal belief. I do believe doctors and physical trainers, etc... all use this standard.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) I'm pretty sure you've been clear. Your idea is: 1. Fat is processed into fat waste at some point. 2. Fat waste comes out in urine in the morning. 2 is almost completely wrong, and you've provided no evidence for that assertion. > It is well understood method to weigh yourself every morning to ensure you aren't measuring water weight loss. Feel free to argue against this standard, it's not my personal belief. I do believe doctors and physical trainers, etc... all use this standard. In a scientific experiment, you control for a confounding factor by isolating the phenomena you are measuring from another phenomena that might screw up your measurements. If you're measuring your weight every day, the confounding factor is the weight of things that aren't you: water/food/waste. So you separate out weighing you and weighing the water/food/waste by weighing yourself when there's the least water/food/waste in your system. So this is how you control the measurement of your weight for water weight. If you're measuring the weight of waste products that come from processing fat, the confounding factors are still water/food/waste in your system, but the waste products that come from processing fat are mixed in with them, and there's no way to measure them separately. Measuring in the morning doesn't fix this problem. So this doesn't control the measurement of the waste products that come from processing fat's weight for water weight. It is well understood that 85% of fat weight lost is exhaled as carbon dioxide, so if you're going to tell me what is well understood, you might actually want to find out more of what is well understood.