5 ms·

No, it turns out that the adherents of the religion of "love thy neighbor" and "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to

No, it turns out that the adherents of the religion of "love thy neighbor" and "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" have no problem with our economic system.

mikelyons 7y ago
I'm talking about psychedelic induced direct experiences of the point of life as utter selflessness and infinite love.
- zepto 7y ago
  Weird that it requires a special compound to give you a direct experience of this. You’d think that if the point of life was selflessness and love, this would be more obvious. Also, what do you think of the people whose medicine comes from the coca plant, who have direct experience that the point of life is greed and self-satisfaction?
  - mikelyons 7y ago
    the concept of "a special compound" is something you made up. It takes a special compound to experience numbness of your teeth for dental work, does that mean the numbness is something that takes away from the value of the dental work or the protection from pain? Watch the videos that correct the stigma of psychedelics and see the human history of them.
  - mikelyons 7y ago
    It sounds like you have no experience with cocaine, and no experience with psychedelics ... I can understand this position coming from ignorance, so I don't blame you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TazyFTavMyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TazyFTavMyA
    - zepto 7y ago
      Firstly you are just wrong. I have experience of both, especially psychedelics, and I am familiar with and have been involved in research on the topic. Secondly, your reasoning is clearly impaired because you drew a conclusion for which you obviously don’t have any facts to support. Thirdly, you lept to defend an ungrounded claim that a particular drug experience gives access to spiritual truth. Temporary distortions of experience can be valuable but to quote from a famous drug culture movie, “why trust one drug and not another?”. This is an extraordinary claim that requires serious examination. Your reflexive defense suggests that you have lost sight of this. These kinds of failures of reasoning are attributed to psychedelics by even the most optimistic of researchers. See this article by one of the world’s leading researcher in the field: http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/71/3/316?fbclid=IwAR36UzFla5Lfx7-4LTr6R8N0XdUSOnbg3gnRPXn806cPKO7Zsas2EsJJhDs http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/71/3/316?fbclid=Iw... The section ‘what about the woo’ in particular talks about the problem. I think psychedelics can be very positive, but they can also damage your ability to reason. As a temporary tradeoff this may well be a reasonable price to pay for relief from trauma. It’s a red flag when you start proclaiming that psychedelics are the door to experienced of fundamental truth and you are unable to reason about it. This kind of thinking is a symptom that you haven’t addressed the side effects the psychedelics have had on you.
      - mikelyons 7y ago
        Like I said, this also appears to be the result of you not validating things in your direct experience and instead relying on dogma. This is an example of false skepticism, rather than True skepticism. More info if you're open-minded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kzZdps9PG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kzZdps9PG4
        zepto 7y ago
        Are you familiar with the research on psychedelics? Here is another extremely respected commentator who expresses skepticism: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/10/ssc-journal-club-relaxed-beliefs-under-psychedelics-and-the-anarchic-brain/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/10/ssc-journal-club-relax... Do you dismiss Scott Alexander as a false skeptic also? Also - that dude in your video is presenting a false dichotomy and no true Scotsman fallacy in order to market himself an authority on personal development. I’d be careful with that stuff because it’s classic cult leader behavior. Having a ready dismissal for threatening ideas generally does not make us smarter. Having looked at your bio I feel compassion for you, since I think you are sincere, and it seems like your desire for enlightenment and healing are being exploited.
- partialrecall 7y ago
  Are you ready to use violence to enforce your religion of love? There is no way in hell I'd willingly submit to you drugging me.
  - mikelyons 7y ago
    Notice that the devil is what makes you think you're separate from God. And for your statement to be true for you you'd literally have to be in hell ...

mikelyons 7y ago

I'm talking about psychedelic induced direct experiences of the point of life as utter selflessness and infinite love.

zepto 7y ago
Weird that it requires a special compound to give you a direct experience of this. You’d think that if the point of life was selflessness and love, this would be more obvious. Also, what do you think of the people whose medicine comes from the coca plant, who have direct experience that the point of life is greed and self-satisfaction?
- mikelyons 7y ago
  the concept of "a special compound" is something you made up. It takes a special compound to experience numbness of your teeth for dental work, does that mean the numbness is something that takes away from the value of the dental work or the protection from pain? Watch the videos that correct the stigma of psychedelics and see the human history of them.
- mikelyons 7y ago
  It sounds like you have no experience with cocaine, and no experience with psychedelics ... I can understand this position coming from ignorance, so I don't blame you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TazyFTavMyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TazyFTavMyA
  - zepto 7y ago
    Firstly you are just wrong. I have experience of both, especially psychedelics, and I am familiar with and have been involved in research on the topic. Secondly, your reasoning is clearly impaired because you drew a conclusion for which you obviously don’t have any facts to support. Thirdly, you lept to defend an ungrounded claim that a particular drug experience gives access to spiritual truth. Temporary distortions of experience can be valuable but to quote from a famous drug culture movie, “why trust one drug and not another?”. This is an extraordinary claim that requires serious examination. Your reflexive defense suggests that you have lost sight of this. These kinds of failures of reasoning are attributed to psychedelics by even the most optimistic of researchers. See this article by one of the world’s leading researcher in the field: http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/71/3/316?fbclid=IwAR36UzFla5Lfx7-4LTr6R8N0XdUSOnbg3gnRPXn806cPKO7Zsas2EsJJhDs http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/71/3/316?fbclid=Iw... The section ‘what about the woo’ in particular talks about the problem. I think psychedelics can be very positive, but they can also damage your ability to reason. As a temporary tradeoff this may well be a reasonable price to pay for relief from trauma. It’s a red flag when you start proclaiming that psychedelics are the door to experienced of fundamental truth and you are unable to reason about it. This kind of thinking is a symptom that you haven’t addressed the side effects the psychedelics have had on you.
    - mikelyons 7y ago
      Like I said, this also appears to be the result of you not validating things in your direct experience and instead relying on dogma. This is an example of false skepticism, rather than True skepticism. More info if you're open-minded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kzZdps9PG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kzZdps9PG4
      - zepto 7y ago
        Are you familiar with the research on psychedelics? Here is another extremely respected commentator who expresses skepticism: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/10/ssc-journal-club-relaxed-beliefs-under-psychedelics-and-the-anarchic-brain/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/10/ssc-journal-club-relax... Do you dismiss Scott Alexander as a false skeptic also? Also - that dude in your video is presenting a false dichotomy and no true Scotsman fallacy in order to market himself an authority on personal development. I’d be careful with that stuff because it’s classic cult leader behavior. Having a ready dismissal for threatening ideas generally does not make us smarter. Having looked at your bio I feel compassion for you, since I think you are sincere, and it seems like your desire for enlightenment and healing are being exploited.
partialrecall 7y ago
Are you ready to use violence to enforce your religion of love? There is no way in hell I'd willingly submit to you drugging me.
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Notice that the devil is what makes you think you're separate from God. And for your statement to be true for you you'd literally have to be in hell ...