17 ms·

Interview with Edward Snowden

279 points by bjoko 7y ago

jrjdjdhhedh 7y ago
Edward Snowden is a useful idiot.
draw_down 7y ago
Probably worth calling out, since we're apparently supposed to believe Jeffrey Epstein broke his neck by kneeling too hard.
- on_and_off 7y ago
  why does this get downvoted ? Epstein dying in his cell is a major scandal.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    Because it's completely unrelated.
    - wolco 7y ago
      Is it? People killing others in secret to avoid information getting out but framing it differently.
      - thaumaturgy 7y ago
        The really dumb title for this submission is distracting from the better parts of the interview. That quote wasn't Snowden implying he thinks he's in imminent danger of being murdered; he was just rebutting people saying that he was suicidal. The interview itself has zero relationship to the whole Epstein thing (of which I find many of the details to be scandalous).
        Udik 7y ago
        > That quote wasn't Snowden implying he thinks he's in imminent danger of being murdered Probably not, but it's pretty clear he believes that secret services killing someone and making the death appear a suicide is a common occurrence. And I doubt he doesn't have the Epstein case in mind, as the most recent example.
      - diminoten 7y ago
        Yes. Everything is related if you generalize sufficiently, and all you're doing is drawing pointless lines between two unrelated situations.
cypherpunks01 7y ago
I do wonder which specific philosophical objection to suicide Snowden ascribes to?
- jstanley 7y ago
  If I were afraid that I might be hurled out of a window against my will, I think publicly going on the record as philosophically opposed to suicide would be a very good idea.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    If I were a trolling or narcissistic prankster considering suicide, I might do the same. (No suggestion or accusation about Snowden is implied.)
- dTal 7y ago
  If I had to guess, given his character, I would hazard something along the lines of "if you have the opportunity to make the world a better place, then you have the moral obligation to". If he were in a position where he wanted to commit suicide, it would be the "easy way out" - analogous to continuing his easy life in Hawaii, instead of throwing it all away out of duty. Of course one can contrive scenarios where suicide is "the right thing to do", but I doubt Snowden expects to find himself in such a situation.
seppin 7y ago
He's under FSB protection, the only threat on him now is if he violates their rules. edit i'm sorry does HN not like me pointing out their golden boy is a Russian agent? (intel asset under protection)
- ben_w 7y ago
  Care to hypothesise what those rules might be? Because he does criticise the Russian government openly and often, so he certainly doesn’t look like a pawn, even if Putin is playing metaphorical chess against the whole world.
  - seppin 7y ago
    That's a very good question i've thought about as well. I don't think the Kremlin has much use for him anymore tbh, but they aren't going to hand him over either without getting anything in return. He's too much of a PR gift. > Because he does criticise the Russian government openly and often He is careful in what he says, and makes sure not to question the levers of power Putin has (elections, policy state, etc.). I have no doubt he has been given clear guidelines of what to avoid saying, as he is living by the good graces of the Kremlin now.
- wolco 7y ago
  agent and under protection are two different things.
  - seppin 7y ago
    technically no, an agent is a foreign asset.
    - seppin 7y ago
      Facts getting downvoted. This place has become Reddit with even more blind arrogance. Myth 2: The men and women who work for the CIA are spies and agents Citizens who work for the CIA are officers – not agents or spies. All employees, from operations officers, to analysts, to librarians and public affairs, are considered CIA officers. So, who is a CIA agent? Our operations officers recruit well-placed human assets with access to information. These spies are agents. They provide critical information about their country to help America. Operations officers are CIA employees who spot, recruit, and handle foreign agents. They are experts in understanding human nature, emotions, intentions, and motivations. https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2018-featured-story-archive/top-10-cia-myths.html https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/...
lettergram 7y ago
One thing I always find striking is that Snowden is very good at articulating himself on the fly. He doesn’t always “sell” the general audience, as he gets too technical. However, he’s extremely good at providing solid answers consistently to pretty much every question.
- marricks 7y ago
  I thought it was kind of surprising at first then I realized it’s because he already thought deeply about everything he’s been asked. After careful deliberation he made a moral choice to leak information at great risk to himself. This makes him not only good to talk through the technical implications of his choices but also moral ones.
  - jonahbenton 7y ago
    Please consider alternative narratives. He acted selfishly, not morally. Like a startup founder he wanted to disrupt an existing infrastructure, with a one-sided view of the trajectory his impact would have on the domain. Any collateral damage would be easy to hide in the personal narrative memory hole. Deep thoughts and intellectual defenses are not so hard to construct, should not be uncritically accepted with significant corroborating evidence, and should certainly not be taken in any way to imply morality, as shown by the growing list of deep thinkers who supported and participated in Jeffrey Epstein's schemes. With Snowden we have very little corroboration, so best reserve judgement. And if he does wind up dying as many other Russian actors have...
    - dilippkumar 7y ago
      > Please consider alternative narratives. No. > He acted selfishly, not morally. No, he acted morally. > Deep thoughts and intellectual defenses are not so hard to construct, should not be uncritically accepted with significant corroborating evidence, and should certainly not be taken in any way to imply morality, as shown by the growing list of deep thinkers who supported and participated in Jeffrey Epstein's schemes. No. It's simple. Snowden = Good. Stop trying to "muh Russians!" this. > With Snowden we have very little corroboration, so best reserve judgement. No. His documents appear sufficiently authentic to be acted upon. I, and people I know, are not reserving our judgements. > And if he does wind up dying as many other Russian actors have... We all will know exactly what sort of people run our government.
phil248 7y ago
Let's hope it doesn't come to... defenestration!
- dundercoder 7y ago
  > Defenestration The act of throwing out of a window. Early 17th century from modern Latin defenestratio(n-), from de- ‘down from’ + Latin fenestra ‘window’.
  - scrumbledober 7y ago
    always reminds me of one of my favorite plants, the succulent fenestraria, that basically has a super cool adaptation to survive in dry spells by using leaves that are basically fiber optic cables to deliver light to chloroplasts underground.
sixstringtheory 7y ago
> a guy who was supposed to be teaching me...sometimes...would spin around in his chair, showing me nudes of whatever target's wife he's looking at. And he's like: "Bonus!" And that's just a lackey... this only worries me as to what a determined, calculating person is capable of with these tools. > The most important part of the Rubik's cube was actually not as a concealment device, but a distraction device...I really gave Rubik's cubes to everyone in my office as gifts and guards saw me coming and going with this Rubik's cube all the time. So I was the Rubik's cube guy. And when I came out of the tunnel with my contraband and saw one of the bored guards, I sometimes tossed the cube to him. He's like, "Oh, man, I had one of these things when I was a kid, but you know, I could never solve it. So I just pulled the stickers off." That was exactly what I had done -- but for different reasons. Love this, totally poetic at the end there. This really does read like a kid's spy thriller. Can't wait to read the book.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  > this only worries me as to what a determined, calculating person is capable of with these tools. What do you think they would do that they haven't been doing for decades? This target has a court-ordered wiretap on them. The police can request everything up to and including bugging a target's house in these cases, as long as the judge approves. You seem to believe they can get this data for anybody, but the company that has the data will not hand it over without a court order
pier25 7y ago
Of course the US would not push him through a window but someone that wanted to damage the US international image might...
- josho 7y ago
  If you read American history there are all kinds of shady things that the CIA have done. You might be surprised to learn the lengths they will take to protect American interests.
  - pier25 7y ago
    Maybe it wasn't clear from my comment. My point was not that the US/CIA don't "push people out of windows" but that they wouldn't do it because Snowden is such a public figure.
galaxyLogic 7y ago
He comes off as a guy with integrity. But what about Julian Assange? The consensus in the US media now seems to be that he just wanted to hurt Hillary by helping Donald Trump, and thus was working for team Russia?
- jonahbenton 7y ago
  The ad hoc but exceedingly purposeful collaboration between Wikileaks, Russian military and civilian agents, the Trump campaign and other actors is documented extensively in the Mueller report. The Report[1] podcast does an excellent job of making it more accessible. Longtime US intelligence community players eg [2] have made explicit claims that Wikileaks is in part a Russian intel operation. Those claims should be taken with some salt, all is not spy novels and deep state games, but it seems clear that motivated and intelligent "transparency" actors like Assange and Snowden can- want to- cause asymmetrical chaos, so are useful to support. 1. https://www.lawfareblog.com/introducing-report-podcast-series-lawfare https://www.lawfareblog.com/introducing-report-podcast-serie... 2. https://www.google.com/amp/s/20committee.com/2015/08/31/wikileaks-is-a-front-for-russian-intelligence/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/20committee.com/2015/08/31/wiki...
  - ryacko 7y ago
    If you can prove knowledge and intent, you can charge under a whole variety of crimes. Has the US criminal justice system gotten so weak from prioritizing easy wins for the sake of getting hired at a private law firm that they don’t even know how to prosecute or even ask Congress for transparent mechanisms to prosecute? What is even the end goal beyond giving US intelligence a bad day? Your allegations do not pass muster.
deleted 7y ago
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slg 7y ago
>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly have the right to do that, but that abdication can't be apolitical. It is instead a tacit endorsement of the status quo. How good or bad that is depends on your personal politics and whoever happens to be in political control at the time. One example that I think most people on HN can agree on is climate change. You can either work to fight climate change or you are allowing our current path of ignoring the problem to continue. Think of it like inertia. If we don't interact with a political issue, it will keep moving unchanged forever. The only way it changes is when we apply political force to it.
- skybrian 7y ago
  If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. What organizations do you support, and why? Not this content-free guilt-mongering, it doesn't help anyone.
  - Clubber 7y ago
    Honestly, for me now, neither of the big two political parties, at least at the federal level. Join any organization that fights for your constitutional rights: all of them. People have to understand that these interests are so entrenched and powerful, and the game is so rigged, it will only get worse.
  - weare138 7y ago
    > If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. Asking someone to tell you what you're supposed to do defeats the purpose of participating, which was kind of the point the OP was making.
  - slg 7y ago
    >If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. Become involved. I think the minimum you should do is to vote in every election in your municipality. One of the main causes of the problems in our current system is the atrocious voter turnout rate. You can even just submit your entire ballot blank. Politicians can't see who voted for what, but they can see if you show up to the polls. They see which demographics vote, what issues those demographics care about, and they adjust their platform accordingly. This is one of the primary reasons that people say there aren't any politicians who represent their values. We need to break that feedback loop. >What organizations do you support, and why? HN is not the place for that discussion. >Not this content-free guilt-mongering, it doesn't help anyone. I am simply trying to get people to give up this notion that political neutrality is a virtue or something to be proud of. Refusing to participate in politics doesn't make politics go away. If this comment gets one person to reconsider that stance, I would consider that helping.
tptacek 7y ago
This is a terrible title, which would be better as "Interview with Edward Snowden". "You can be sure I was pushed" is an aside, and has little of the connotation the title has (that Snowden truly believes he's at risk of being assassinated); rather, it's a tossed-off comment about the fact that he's not suicidal, despite reports that he's been depressed.
- ma2rten 7y ago
  I totally agree that it is a terrible title. Der Spiegel does very high quality reporting, but I got the impression that German journalist like to use sensationalist quotes as the title even more than English speaking ones do. That said, I genuinely got the impression that Snowden is concerned that he might get assassinated and that his history of depression might be used covered it up.
  - hencq 7y ago
    There's nothing wrong with the title. It's a direct quote from the interview. Also, the article literally has "Interview with Edward Snowden" above it with a picture of him. Just because it entices you to read doesn't automatically make it clickbait. I do think that the subtitle "Interview with Edward Snowden" would be a much better title for the HN submission. The current title without any context (picture + sub title) doesn't provide any information if it just appears in a list of text links.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      "Terrible title for HN" captures more precisely what I meant to say, thanks. I don't so much care how publications choose to tease articles in their own pages.
- user982 7y ago
  > "You can be sure I was pushed" is an aside, and has little of the connotation the title has (that Snowden truly believes he's at risk of being assassinated) The vehemence of his denial and insistence that it be on the record point to Snowden trying to get in front of any potential suicide narrative being used as cover for his assassination. I don't see how there's little connotation of that.
artsyca 7y ago
I'm turned off by typos, especially one in the subject's name so early into the text -- "Snwoden"
lowdose 7y ago
Is Snowden publishing a book at the same time there is some confusion about voting in Russian elections? I'm a big fan of Snowden and don't want to insinuate malice. Is this just a mere coincidence? https://www.newsweek.com/russia-novosibirsk-sergey-boyko-navalny-1459145 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-novosibirsk-sergey-boyko-nav...
- skybrian 7y ago
  It's an English-language title, and publishers typically schedule things months or years in advance.
  - deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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- JBiserkov 7y ago
  The book will be released on September 17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_State...
kamyarg 7y ago
> if I had wanted to live a safe life, I would still be sitting in Hawaii in paradise with the woman I love collecting a huge paycheck to do almost no work. Regardless of if he is a hero or villain, he does have integrity. People that sacrifices their safety or lives to help a good cause are the ones I respect the most. I hope he will be able to visit his country safely sometime. p.s. Please fix the title, it is clickbaity and almost unrelated to the actual article/interview.
- seppin 7y ago
  > Regardless of if he is a hero or villain, he does have integrity. Edward Snowden became an international celebrity because of what he did, and traded a comfortable life in Hawaii for a comfortable life in Moscow. Please don't speak of him in the same vein as, for example, a disappeared Chinese dissident who has actually sacrificed everything for what they believe.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    > traded a comfortable life in Hawaii for a comfortable life in Moscow A comfortable life in Moscow that was never guaranteed beforehand, and could be arbitrarily taken away with no notice. Being fortune enough to end up in a decent situation does not change what he sacrificed.
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      He thought he was going to get a comfortable life in Hong Kong by leaking lists of compromised systems to China. That China laughed him out of the country after receiving the documents does not change what he thought his trade was.
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        So in this fantasy scenario, China is fine completely screwing him over, and then let's him inform everyone what information they now have? Seems dumb.
chupa-chups 7y ago
Spiegel has become one of the worst propaganda magazines (not for the government, but for highest bidder) in Germany. It was once famous for investigative journalism, nowadays the most relevant question is who paid most for the article. Sorry for this rant. Still, occasionally you'll get a really good article. This is probably one of those.
- Clubber 7y ago
  All traditional reporting institutions have been fighting for their survival for a decade or so now.
- lispm 7y ago
  Sorry, no sorry for your posting. That wasn't a rant. It was more a failed attempt to spread FUD. If you have actual information how and when companies regularly bid/paid for articles, you should tell us. Who bid/paid for the articles in the current edition, with the main article about the car industry?
lifeisstillgood 7y ago
> Let's assume you could simply poke an icon and all the hidden activity would stop, would you do that? > DER SPIEGEL: Of course. That I think is the crux of the issue - our consent is not real.
- ccvannorman 7y ago
  This is the most concise way to explain to pedestrians (who are now largely aware of tracking) the crux of the issue. Who in their right mind wouldn't poke the icon? Hope this becomes a thing, I'll certainly be spreading it.
- shelvacu 7y ago
  No, that doesn't seem quite right. I think the issue is that people don't understand just how valuable their data is. Technically, it's posed as an exchange. People "pay" their data to get these services. People so freely give their data/privacy so much that at this point, it's a required part of using most of humanity's technology. The icon exists, it's called the power button, because if you stop paying, they don't provide the service anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's a terrible state of affairs, and plenty of people don't even realize they're "paying" like this (likely on purpose, data is much more valuable when people don't realise the data is being collected). But there's no competition, no alternate provider of free maps & guidance that is as good as google maps and protects privacy. So yes, of course. For the same reason that if I could simply poke an icon and receive $1000, of course I would do that.
  - dexen 7y ago
    >people don't understand just how valuable their data is. My data isn't valuable. Your data isn't valuable[1]. The data of all HN users is of some value. The data of all Facebook users is highly valuable. But no single FB user has any claim to having valuable data; not even in proportion. The value is in having a collected, curated, normalized, and cross-tabulated dataset. One that can be queried at scale and with good certainty to accuracy. The value is emergent, a property of the whole graph; it's not merely sum of all the parts nodes[2]. This is one of the reasons "databases" are a separate protected category under IP laws. Come to think of it, the value was created by Facebook, by collecting, managing, and processing the dataset, rather than by users collecting the individual datasets. We may need a whole separate branch of jurisprudence and legislation, dealing with situations where value (or harm) is an emergent phenomenon in a dense network, not only not attributable directly to any singular node, but also much greater than straightforward sum of nodes' values. There's a similar (if of destructive value) case for vulnerable "internet of things" / "smart devices". Any singular such device being vulnerable to remote exploit is barely notable. Together, a vast army of vulnerable small "smart devices" easily become a botnet in hands of criminals, with power vastly larger than mere sum of parts. Question arises how to handle responsibility & culpability of vendors (or owners). -- [1] aside of being directly useful to you. [2] possible edges = n(n-1)/2, thus value = O(n* *2)
deleted 7y ago
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ChuckMcM 7y ago
I respect Snowden's ability to clearly articulate his position. I look forward to his book. And unlike the somewhat polarizing discussions of others, I found his statement on the difference to between intelligence and the actions of covert action, propaganda, and influence to be quite reasonable. In much the same way that accounting systems suggest you firewall the people who can sign checks from the people who can enter legitimate expenses to prevent embezzlement, the 'rules' in an intelligence agency have to firewall the collection and analysis of intelligence from the operational abilities on the other side. We see this is civil intelligence agencies where police officers (who are the operational end of law enforcement) are given direct access to intelligence sources (from places like Palintir) and then abuse that relationship to collect intelligence on enemies (like ex spouses) in order to inform how they can operate against them. A more effective system is to put a strong firewall between the intelligence and the operator so that there is always documentation when operations requests intelligence information and the justification given for that collection. It creates an auditable paper trail that allows for a prosecutorial effort to be mounted against bad actors. As one person put it, watching the watchers only works if you have a record of everything they have done that can be authenticated. Such a system would log every piece of intelligence an analyst received, and with a check in place to validate a 'need to know' for things like a target's spouses nude photos, your auditors could weed out bad actors in the pipeline. That is the sort of structure that makes institutions stable and more difficult to corrupt. Processes that survive execution with a number of bad actors.
crb002 7y ago
The defenestration of Snowden.
ngcc_hk 7y ago
If you were working against police as a group, you may have no escape. No one will ever know.

279 points by bjoko 7y ago

Edward Snowden is a useful idiot.

Probably worth calling out, since we're apparently supposed to believe Jeffrey Epstein broke his neck by kneeling too hard.

on_and_off 7y ago
why does this get downvoted ? Epstein dying in his cell is a major scandal.
- diminoten 7y ago
  Because it's completely unrelated.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Is it? People killing others in secret to avoid information getting out but framing it differently.
    - thaumaturgy 7y ago
      The really dumb title for this submission is distracting from the better parts of the interview. That quote wasn't Snowden implying he thinks he's in imminent danger of being murdered; he was just rebutting people saying that he was suicidal. The interview itself has zero relationship to the whole Epstein thing (of which I find many of the details to be scandalous).
      - Udik 7y ago
        > That quote wasn't Snowden implying he thinks he's in imminent danger of being murdered Probably not, but it's pretty clear he believes that secret services killing someone and making the death appear a suicide is a common occurrence. And I doubt he doesn't have the Epstein case in mind, as the most recent example.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      Yes. Everything is related if you generalize sufficiently, and all you're doing is drawing pointless lines between two unrelated situations.

cypherpunks01 7y ago

I do wonder which specific philosophical objection to suicide Snowden ascribes to?

jstanley 7y ago
If I were afraid that I might be hurled out of a window against my will, I think publicly going on the record as philosophically opposed to suicide would be a very good idea.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  If I were a trolling or narcissistic prankster considering suicide, I might do the same. (No suggestion or accusation about Snowden is implied.)
dTal 7y ago
If I had to guess, given his character, I would hazard something along the lines of "if you have the opportunity to make the world a better place, then you have the moral obligation to". If he were in a position where he wanted to commit suicide, it would be the "easy way out" - analogous to continuing his easy life in Hawaii, instead of throwing it all away out of duty. Of course one can contrive scenarios where suicide is "the right thing to do", but I doubt Snowden expects to find himself in such a situation.

seppin 7y ago

He's under FSB protection, the only threat on him now is if he violates their rules. edit i'm sorry does HN not like me pointing out their golden boy is a Russian agent? (intel asset under protection)

ben_w 7y ago
Care to hypothesise what those rules might be? Because he does criticise the Russian government openly and often, so he certainly doesn’t look like a pawn, even if Putin is playing metaphorical chess against the whole world.
- seppin 7y ago
  That's a very good question i've thought about as well. I don't think the Kremlin has much use for him anymore tbh, but they aren't going to hand him over either without getting anything in return. He's too much of a PR gift. > Because he does criticise the Russian government openly and often He is careful in what he says, and makes sure not to question the levers of power Putin has (elections, policy state, etc.). I have no doubt he has been given clear guidelines of what to avoid saying, as he is living by the good graces of the Kremlin now.
wolco 7y ago
agent and under protection are two different things.
- seppin 7y ago
  technically no, an agent is a foreign asset.
  - seppin 7y ago
    Facts getting downvoted. This place has become Reddit with even more blind arrogance. Myth 2: The men and women who work for the CIA are spies and agents Citizens who work for the CIA are officers – not agents or spies. All employees, from operations officers, to analysts, to librarians and public affairs, are considered CIA officers. So, who is a CIA agent? Our operations officers recruit well-placed human assets with access to information. These spies are agents. They provide critical information about their country to help America. Operations officers are CIA employees who spot, recruit, and handle foreign agents. They are experts in understanding human nature, emotions, intentions, and motivations. https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2018-featured-story-archive/top-10-cia-myths.html https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/...

lettergram 7y ago

One thing I always find striking is that Snowden is very good at articulating himself on the fly. He doesn’t always “sell” the general audience, as he gets too technical. However, he’s extremely good at providing solid answers consistently to pretty much every question.

marricks 7y ago
I thought it was kind of surprising at first then I realized it’s because he already thought deeply about everything he’s been asked. After careful deliberation he made a moral choice to leak information at great risk to himself. This makes him not only good to talk through the technical implications of his choices but also moral ones.
- jonahbenton 7y ago
  Please consider alternative narratives. He acted selfishly, not morally. Like a startup founder he wanted to disrupt an existing infrastructure, with a one-sided view of the trajectory his impact would have on the domain. Any collateral damage would be easy to hide in the personal narrative memory hole. Deep thoughts and intellectual defenses are not so hard to construct, should not be uncritically accepted with significant corroborating evidence, and should certainly not be taken in any way to imply morality, as shown by the growing list of deep thinkers who supported and participated in Jeffrey Epstein's schemes. With Snowden we have very little corroboration, so best reserve judgement. And if he does wind up dying as many other Russian actors have...
  - dilippkumar 7y ago
    > Please consider alternative narratives. No. > He acted selfishly, not morally. No, he acted morally. > Deep thoughts and intellectual defenses are not so hard to construct, should not be uncritically accepted with significant corroborating evidence, and should certainly not be taken in any way to imply morality, as shown by the growing list of deep thinkers who supported and participated in Jeffrey Epstein's schemes. No. It's simple. Snowden = Good. Stop trying to "muh Russians!" this. > With Snowden we have very little corroboration, so best reserve judgement. No. His documents appear sufficiently authentic to be acted upon. I, and people I know, are not reserving our judgements. > And if he does wind up dying as many other Russian actors have... We all will know exactly what sort of people run our government.

phil248 7y ago

Let's hope it doesn't come to... defenestration!

dundercoder 7y ago
> Defenestration The act of throwing out of a window. Early 17th century from modern Latin defenestratio(n-), from de- ‘down from’ + Latin fenestra ‘window’.
- scrumbledober 7y ago
  always reminds me of one of my favorite plants, the succulent fenestraria, that basically has a super cool adaptation to survive in dry spells by using leaves that are basically fiber optic cables to deliver light to chloroplasts underground.

sixstringtheory 7y ago

> a guy who was supposed to be teaching me...sometimes...would spin around in his chair, showing me nudes of whatever target's wife he's looking at. And he's like: "Bonus!" And that's just a lackey... this only worries me as to what a determined, calculating person is capable of with these tools. > The most important part of the Rubik's cube was actually not as a concealment device, but a distraction device...I really gave Rubik's cubes to everyone in my office as gifts and guards saw me coming and going with this Rubik's cube all the time. So I was the Rubik's cube guy. And when I came out of the tunnel with my contraband and saw one of the bored guards, I sometimes tossed the cube to him. He's like, "Oh, man, I had one of these things when I was a kid, but you know, I could never solve it. So I just pulled the stickers off." That was exactly what I had done -- but for different reasons. Love this, totally poetic at the end there. This really does read like a kid's spy thriller. Can't wait to read the book.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
> this only worries me as to what a determined, calculating person is capable of with these tools. What do you think they would do that they haven't been doing for decades? This target has a court-ordered wiretap on them. The police can request everything up to and including bugging a target's house in these cases, as long as the judge approves. You seem to believe they can get this data for anybody, but the company that has the data will not hand it over without a court order

pier25 7y ago

Of course the US would not push him through a window but someone that wanted to damage the US international image might...

josho 7y ago
If you read American history there are all kinds of shady things that the CIA have done. You might be surprised to learn the lengths they will take to protect American interests.
- pier25 7y ago
  Maybe it wasn't clear from my comment. My point was not that the US/CIA don't "push people out of windows" but that they wouldn't do it because Snowden is such a public figure.

galaxyLogic 7y ago

He comes off as a guy with integrity. But what about Julian Assange? The consensus in the US media now seems to be that he just wanted to hurt Hillary by helping Donald Trump, and thus was working for team Russia?

jonahbenton 7y ago
The ad hoc but exceedingly purposeful collaboration between Wikileaks, Russian military and civilian agents, the Trump campaign and other actors is documented extensively in the Mueller report. The Report[1] podcast does an excellent job of making it more accessible. Longtime US intelligence community players eg [2] have made explicit claims that Wikileaks is in part a Russian intel operation. Those claims should be taken with some salt, all is not spy novels and deep state games, but it seems clear that motivated and intelligent "transparency" actors like Assange and Snowden can- want to- cause asymmetrical chaos, so are useful to support. 1. https://www.lawfareblog.com/introducing-report-podcast-series-lawfare https://www.lawfareblog.com/introducing-report-podcast-serie... 2. https://www.google.com/amp/s/20committee.com/2015/08/31/wikileaks-is-a-front-for-russian-intelligence/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/20committee.com/2015/08/31/wiki...
- ryacko 7y ago
  If you can prove knowledge and intent, you can charge under a whole variety of crimes. Has the US criminal justice system gotten so weak from prioritizing easy wins for the sake of getting hired at a private law firm that they don’t even know how to prosecute or even ask Congress for transparent mechanisms to prosecute? What is even the end goal beyond giving US intelligence a bad day? Your allegations do not pass muster.

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slg 7y ago

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly have the right to do that, but that abdication can't be apolitical. It is instead a tacit endorsement of the status quo. How good or bad that is depends on your personal politics and whoever happens to be in political control at the time. One example that I think most people on HN can agree on is climate change. You can either work to fight climate change or you are allowing our current path of ignoring the problem to continue. Think of it like inertia. If we don't interact with a political issue, it will keep moving unchanged forever. The only way it changes is when we apply political force to it.

skybrian 7y ago
If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. What organizations do you support, and why? Not this content-free guilt-mongering, it doesn't help anyone.
- Clubber 7y ago
  Honestly, for me now, neither of the big two political parties, at least at the federal level. Join any organization that fights for your constitutional rights: all of them. People have to understand that these interests are so entrenched and powerful, and the game is so rigged, it will only get worse.
- weare138 7y ago
  > If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. Asking someone to tell you what you're supposed to do defeats the purpose of participating, which was kind of the point the OP was making.
- slg 7y ago
  >If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. Become involved. I think the minimum you should do is to vote in every election in your municipality. One of the main causes of the problems in our current system is the atrocious voter turnout rate. You can even just submit your entire ballot blank. Politicians can't see who voted for what, but they can see if you show up to the polls. They see which demographics vote, what issues those demographics care about, and they adjust their platform accordingly. This is one of the primary reasons that people say there aren't any politicians who represent their values. We need to break that feedback loop. >What organizations do you support, and why? HN is not the place for that discussion. >Not this content-free guilt-mongering, it doesn't help anyone. I am simply trying to get people to give up this notion that political neutrality is a virtue or something to be proud of. Refusing to participate in politics doesn't make politics go away. If this comment gets one person to reconsider that stance, I would consider that helping.

tptacek 7y ago

This is a terrible title, which would be better as "Interview with Edward Snowden". "You can be sure I was pushed" is an aside, and has little of the connotation the title has (that Snowden truly believes he's at risk of being assassinated); rather, it's a tossed-off comment about the fact that he's not suicidal, despite reports that he's been depressed.

ma2rten 7y ago
I totally agree that it is a terrible title. Der Spiegel does very high quality reporting, but I got the impression that German journalist like to use sensationalist quotes as the title even more than English speaking ones do. That said, I genuinely got the impression that Snowden is concerned that he might get assassinated and that his history of depression might be used covered it up.
- hencq 7y ago
  There's nothing wrong with the title. It's a direct quote from the interview. Also, the article literally has "Interview with Edward Snowden" above it with a picture of him. Just because it entices you to read doesn't automatically make it clickbait. I do think that the subtitle "Interview with Edward Snowden" would be a much better title for the HN submission. The current title without any context (picture + sub title) doesn't provide any information if it just appears in a list of text links.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    "Terrible title for HN" captures more precisely what I meant to say, thanks. I don't so much care how publications choose to tease articles in their own pages.
user982 7y ago
> "You can be sure I was pushed" is an aside, and has little of the connotation the title has (that Snowden truly believes he's at risk of being assassinated) The vehemence of his denial and insistence that it be on the record point to Snowden trying to get in front of any potential suicide narrative being used as cover for his assassination. I don't see how there's little connotation of that.

artsyca 7y ago

I'm turned off by typos, especially one in the subject's name so early into the text -- "Snwoden"

lowdose 7y ago

Is Snowden publishing a book at the same time there is some confusion about voting in Russian elections? I'm a big fan of Snowden and don't want to insinuate malice. Is this just a mere coincidence? https://www.newsweek.com/russia-novosibirsk-sergey-boyko-navalny-1459145 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-novosibirsk-sergey-boyko-nav...

skybrian 7y ago
It's an English-language title, and publishers typically schedule things months or years in advance.
- deleted 7y ago
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JBiserkov 7y ago
The book will be released on September 17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_State...

kamyarg 7y ago

> if I had wanted to live a safe life, I would still be sitting in Hawaii in paradise with the woman I love collecting a huge paycheck to do almost no work. Regardless of if he is a hero or villain, he does have integrity. People that sacrifices their safety or lives to help a good cause are the ones I respect the most. I hope he will be able to visit his country safely sometime. p.s. Please fix the title, it is clickbaity and almost unrelated to the actual article/interview.

seppin 7y ago
> Regardless of if he is a hero or villain, he does have integrity. Edward Snowden became an international celebrity because of what he did, and traded a comfortable life in Hawaii for a comfortable life in Moscow. Please don't speak of him in the same vein as, for example, a disappeared Chinese dissident who has actually sacrificed everything for what they believe.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  > traded a comfortable life in Hawaii for a comfortable life in Moscow A comfortable life in Moscow that was never guaranteed beforehand, and could be arbitrarily taken away with no notice. Being fortune enough to end up in a decent situation does not change what he sacrificed.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    He thought he was going to get a comfortable life in Hong Kong by leaking lists of compromised systems to China. That China laughed him out of the country after receiving the documents does not change what he thought his trade was.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      So in this fantasy scenario, China is fine completely screwing him over, and then let's him inform everyone what information they now have? Seems dumb.

chupa-chups 7y ago

Spiegel has become one of the worst propaganda magazines (not for the government, but for highest bidder) in Germany. It was once famous for investigative journalism, nowadays the most relevant question is who paid most for the article. Sorry for this rant. Still, occasionally you'll get a really good article. This is probably one of those.

Clubber 7y ago
All traditional reporting institutions have been fighting for their survival for a decade or so now.
lispm 7y ago
Sorry, no sorry for your posting. That wasn't a rant. It was more a failed attempt to spread FUD. If you have actual information how and when companies regularly bid/paid for articles, you should tell us. Who bid/paid for the articles in the current edition, with the main article about the car industry?

lifeisstillgood 7y ago

> Let's assume you could simply poke an icon and all the hidden activity would stop, would you do that? > DER SPIEGEL: Of course. That I think is the crux of the issue - our consent is not real.

ccvannorman 7y ago
This is the most concise way to explain to pedestrians (who are now largely aware of tracking) the crux of the issue. Who in their right mind wouldn't poke the icon? Hope this becomes a thing, I'll certainly be spreading it.
shelvacu 7y ago
No, that doesn't seem quite right. I think the issue is that people don't understand just how valuable their data is. Technically, it's posed as an exchange. People "pay" their data to get these services. People so freely give their data/privacy so much that at this point, it's a required part of using most of humanity's technology. The icon exists, it's called the power button, because if you stop paying, they don't provide the service anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's a terrible state of affairs, and plenty of people don't even realize they're "paying" like this (likely on purpose, data is much more valuable when people don't realise the data is being collected). But there's no competition, no alternate provider of free maps & guidance that is as good as google maps and protects privacy. So yes, of course. For the same reason that if I could simply poke an icon and receive $1000, of course I would do that.
- dexen 7y ago
  >people don't understand just how valuable their data is. My data isn't valuable. Your data isn't valuable[1]. The data of all HN users is of some value. The data of all Facebook users is highly valuable. But no single FB user has any claim to having valuable data; not even in proportion. The value is in having a collected, curated, normalized, and cross-tabulated dataset. One that can be queried at scale and with good certainty to accuracy. The value is emergent, a property of the whole graph; it's not merely sum of all the parts nodes[2]. This is one of the reasons "databases" are a separate protected category under IP laws. Come to think of it, the value was created by Facebook, by collecting, managing, and processing the dataset, rather than by users collecting the individual datasets. We may need a whole separate branch of jurisprudence and legislation, dealing with situations where value (or harm) is an emergent phenomenon in a dense network, not only not attributable directly to any singular node, but also much greater than straightforward sum of nodes' values. There's a similar (if of destructive value) case for vulnerable "internet of things" / "smart devices". Any singular such device being vulnerable to remote exploit is barely notable. Together, a vast army of vulnerable small "smart devices" easily become a botnet in hands of criminals, with power vastly larger than mere sum of parts. Question arises how to handle responsibility & culpability of vendors (or owners). -- [1] aside of being directly useful to you. [2] possible edges = n(n-1)/2, thus value = O(n* *2)

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ChuckMcM 7y ago

I respect Snowden's ability to clearly articulate his position. I look forward to his book. And unlike the somewhat polarizing discussions of others, I found his statement on the difference to between intelligence and the actions of covert action, propaganda, and influence to be quite reasonable. In much the same way that accounting systems suggest you firewall the people who can sign checks from the people who can enter legitimate expenses to prevent embezzlement, the 'rules' in an intelligence agency have to firewall the collection and analysis of intelligence from the operational abilities on the other side. We see this is civil intelligence agencies where police officers (who are the operational end of law enforcement) are given direct access to intelligence sources (from places like Palintir) and then abuse that relationship to collect intelligence on enemies (like ex spouses) in order to inform how they can operate against them. A more effective system is to put a strong firewall between the intelligence and the operator so that there is always documentation when operations requests intelligence information and the justification given for that collection. It creates an auditable paper trail that allows for a prosecutorial effort to be mounted against bad actors. As one person put it, watching the watchers only works if you have a record of everything they have done that can be authenticated. Such a system would log every piece of intelligence an analyst received, and with a check in place to validate a 'need to know' for things like a target's spouses nude photos, your auditors could weed out bad actors in the pipeline. That is the sort of structure that makes institutions stable and more difficult to corrupt. Processes that survive execution with a number of bad actors.

crb002 7y ago

The defenestration of Snowden.

ngcc_hk 7y ago

If you were working against police as a group, you may have no escape. No one will ever know.