3 ms·

I suppose Mr. Stallman has never heard of "grooming." It's entirely possible they were "willing" in an denotative sense of the word, but given maleability of th

I suppose Mr. Stallman has never heard of "grooming." It's entirely possible they were "willing" in an denotative sense of the word, but given maleability of the young mind it's not exactly informed and willing consent as between two standard adults. There's a reason teachers in many states cannot have relations with former students no matter the age of consent and of those involved.

jMyles 7y ago
> two standard adults But doesn't using a phrase like this open up the very matter that Stallman is trying to implore the forum to consider? "Standard adults" is not concrete language. Can someone be a "standard adult" at 17? I don't know. I do know that I (and everyone I know) was having sex at 17. I'm male (and white, and middle-class), so my surface for being victimized in this way is much different from the victim in this case. But I think Stallman's point is that calling this "rape" merely because of the jurisdiction in which it happened serves to trivialize the word "rape" rather than add clarity to Epstein's conduct.
- eesmith 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Virgin_Islands_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_Ameri... says that a 17 year old is not a "standard adult" when it comes to sex. > I do know that I (and everyone I know) was having sex at 17. Quoting the link: "There is however a close-in-age exemption that allows minors 16 and 17 years old to consent with someone no more than five years older than themselves and minors 13 to 15 years old to consent with one another, but not with anyone 16 or over" > Stallman's point is that calling this "rape" merely because of the jurisdiction in which it happened serves to trivialize the word "rape" The relevant crime is "rape in the second degree", so the term "rape" is the correct description. Now, Stallman disagrees with that categorization. But without knowing what Stallman's definition of "rape" - and knowing that his description of "sexual assault" doesn't reflect an understanding of the legal definition - it comes across like he is minimizing what "rape" means by rejecting some of its definitions.
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jMyles 7y ago

> two standard adults But doesn't using a phrase like this open up the very matter that Stallman is trying to implore the forum to consider? "Standard adults" is not concrete language. Can someone be a "standard adult" at 17? I don't know. I do know that I (and everyone I know) was having sex at 17. I'm male (and white, and middle-class), so my surface for being victimized in this way is much different from the victim in this case. But I think Stallman's point is that calling this "rape" merely because of the jurisdiction in which it happened serves to trivialize the word "rape" rather than add clarity to Epstein's conduct.

eesmith 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Virgin_Islands_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_Ameri... says that a 17 year old is not a "standard adult" when it comes to sex. > I do know that I (and everyone I know) was having sex at 17. Quoting the link: "There is however a close-in-age exemption that allows minors 16 and 17 years old to consent with someone no more than five years older than themselves and minors 13 to 15 years old to consent with one another, but not with anyone 16 or over" > Stallman's point is that calling this "rape" merely because of the jurisdiction in which it happened serves to trivialize the word "rape" The relevant crime is "rape in the second degree", so the term "rape" is the correct description. Now, Stallman disagrees with that categorization. But without knowing what Stallman's definition of "rape" - and knowing that his description of "sexual assault" doesn't reflect an understanding of the legal definition - it comes across like he is minimizing what "rape" means by rejecting some of its definitions.
- deleted 7y ago
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