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The plight of the typical grad isn't just that they have overly general knowledge for any one task, but that they have just emerged from a system that filtered

The plight of the typical grad isn't just that they have overly general knowledge for any one task, but that they have just emerged from a system that filtered their thoughts for possibly several decades into completing assignments and taking tests for a grade. And once you get into industry you have to unlearn that because the clear objective goals and grades disappear, and you are left with an array of subtle values and more pernicuous consequences to any action. And that stuff is absolutely vital to being good at intellectual jobs - it's mostly crushed out by the system, fostering the "narrow STEMlord" mindset that is constantly surprised by things blowing up when they followed the book exactly.

goatinaboat 7y ago
This was a real problem at my last employer, new grads couldn’t really tell the difference between coursework and actual work. And if it wasn’t up to standard thought they could plead with “the professor” (their boss) for a better “grade”.
- jshowa3 7y ago
  I was never this person and still struggled when I initially got into industry and still do. Part of it is because most businesses are run by people that have no knowledge of the timescale of their projects and therefore try to squeeze as much work as possible in ridiculous time frames and society trains you to stop "whining" and get it done. The lack of empathy in industry is enormous due to profit motive. And because of the ambiguous nature of software, it's always difficult to know exactly what needs to be done. And because most people want to please their bosses, the incentive to estimate low and push yourself to get a project done is very real.
snowwrestler 7y ago
> once you get into industry you have to unlearn that because the clear objective goals and grades disappear, and you are left with an array of subtle values and more pernicuous consequences to any action Which is one reason I continue to think that a broad education, including humanities and social sciences, is valuable even for folks looking to work in STEM fields. It's in those academic disciplines that you learn to work with subtle nuances, and how to originate and defend an opinion or point of view.
pas 7y ago
What? Clear goals disappear? Why? Here's the repo, clone it, set up the dev env, maybe connect to VPN to reach some test instances, here's the issue tracker, here's a ticket, explore it, see if it's reproducible, if yes, get to the root cause, solve it, get it reviewed, goto 10. Naturally, this should lead to a lot of questions, but which part is not a clear step with clear goals? Plus in industry the employer has vested interest to make you efficient, because it pays you. It'll check up on you daily. (Or initially/constantly you will do pair programming, get mentoring, sprint retros, etc.) And if you are stuck you can ask questions and there are usually domain experts right next to you.

goatinaboat 7y ago

This was a real problem at my last employer, new grads couldn’t really tell the difference between coursework and actual work. And if it wasn’t up to standard thought they could plead with “the professor” (their boss) for a better “grade”.

jshowa3 7y ago
I was never this person and still struggled when I initially got into industry and still do. Part of it is because most businesses are run by people that have no knowledge of the timescale of their projects and therefore try to squeeze as much work as possible in ridiculous time frames and society trains you to stop "whining" and get it done. The lack of empathy in industry is enormous due to profit motive. And because of the ambiguous nature of software, it's always difficult to know exactly what needs to be done. And because most people want to please their bosses, the incentive to estimate low and push yourself to get a project done is very real.

snowwrestler 7y ago

> once you get into industry you have to unlearn that because the clear objective goals and grades disappear, and you are left with an array of subtle values and more pernicuous consequences to any action Which is one reason I continue to think that a broad education, including humanities and social sciences, is valuable even for folks looking to work in STEM fields. It's in those academic disciplines that you learn to work with subtle nuances, and how to originate and defend an opinion or point of view.

pas 7y ago

What? Clear goals disappear? Why? Here's the repo, clone it, set up the dev env, maybe connect to VPN to reach some test instances, here's the issue tracker, here's a ticket, explore it, see if it's reproducible, if yes, get to the root cause, solve it, get it reviewed, goto 10. Naturally, this should lead to a lot of questions, but which part is not a clear step with clear goals? Plus in industry the employer has vested interest to make you efficient, because it pays you. It'll check up on you daily. (Or initially/constantly you will do pair programming, get mentoring, sprint retros, etc.) And if you are stuck you can ask questions and there are usually domain experts right next to you.