5 ms·

Well, maybe if the world listened to actual climate scientists, Nobel laureates, NASA and its satellite data, or even freaking Al Gore, we wouldn't have come to

Well, maybe if the world listened to actual climate scientists, Nobel laureates, NASA and its satellite data, or even freaking Al Gore, we wouldn't have come to this. But people didn't listen - or rather, enough people didn't listen, and now we have to listen to a young autistic teenager girl berating us for sitting idle while the world burns (metaphorically speaking), and IMHO we all deserve it, and you'd better get used to it, because that's not even the remotely worse part of the climate change.

leereeves 7y ago
> while the world burns (metaphorically speaking) Here's where you lose me. I don't see a world burning, and past predictions of coming apocalypse have proven false. Yes, the world is warming. We're going back to the temperature of the world a few million years ago, still much cooler than it was during most of the history of life on Earth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:All_palaeotemps.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/m...
- yongjik 7y ago
  Protip: If you have to argue the Earth was warmer "a few million years ago", you've lost the argument.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    Not even worth responding to. That kind of low-effort comment doesn't belong here. (My original response didn't belong either, so I edited it.)
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > If your argument is that returning to temperatures a few millions years ago is apocalypse, you've lost the ability to reason. As humans did not live on Earth a few million years ago, insofar as human society is concerned, why would the fact that temperatures had previously occurred a few million years ago be even slightly inconsistent with them being apocalyptic?
      - leereeves 7y ago
        Close relatives of humans have lived on Earth for much longer. Unless you have evidence otherwise, I'm betting they required similar climate conditions.
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        That they lived when the climate was significantly different and were replaced when it became more like current climate is evidence otherwise (it's not, in and of itself, conclusive evidence, but it is evidence.)
        NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        They also weren't trying to hold together an advanced technological society. Survival on the margins of existence may be possible long after society as we know it is in ruins.
        leereeves 7y ago
        Only if you make the significant (and I think unwarranted) assumption that the advantage the genus homo had over other apes was climate adaptation and not greater intelligence, standing upright, etc.
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        > Only if you make the significant (and I think unwarranted) assumption that homo sapiens' advantage over other apes was climate adaptation and not greater intelligence, standing upright, etc. No, it's evidence both for the general conclusion and that specific point, it doesn't require that point as an assumption. Evidence is any fact whose existence makes a conclusion more likely than it would be in the absence of that fact.
        leereeves 7y ago
        Given X could potentially cause Y, the fact that Y happened is not evidence of X. In other words, the mere fact that something happened isn't evidence for a proposed (even plausible) cause. Proving the cause requires further evidence.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  > don't see a world burning If the NASA and IPCC graphs of global temperature, and rate of change don't convince you, nothing will. Most predictions on climate heating are turning out to be far worse in actuality. Sea level rise is neatly tracking the IPCC's worst case prediction. Yet they're still putting out the middle ground , conservative case.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    And that's evidence of warming, not "burning". Apocalyptic language is not scientific. But when the facts don't inspire action, activists resort to hyperbole and distortion.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      GP spelt out they were metaphorically speaking. I don't see them claiming to be one of the climate scientists etc. Warming or burning, it's shaping up to ruin society as we know it. At least if we are going to believe the scientists and economists at the IPCC. They seem to be expecting at least two of the four horsemen. That seems pretty apocalyptic to me. If that;s not enough to inspire action, what the hell is? New York knee deep in water?
    - seppin 7y ago
      > Apocalyptic language is not scientific Disagree. The effect to society the warming causes is apocalyptic (1 billion climate refugees). Pointing to rising sea level and temperature is the cause, the effect is our society being unrecognizable in a few short decades.
      - throwaway744678 7y ago
        Can we stop downvoting fair arguments we disagree with? Can't we just "agree to disagree" without resorting to unnecessary measures?
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- senectus1 7y ago
  if a child has a fever its common language to call that "burning up". This doesn't mean she incinerated it means the overall temperature of her body is increased beyond what it needs for a prolonged amount of time. Leave it like that and damage to organs will occur. Leave it too long and system failure will occur and the enough of the organs fail the entire body will die. It works the earth as well. we're in the middle of a fever, leaving it like that will cause damage to organs. Leave it too long those organs (polar regions, tropical areas, ocean temps) will fail. These failures lead to chain reactions that equate to system failures. entire regions will become uninhabitable. Those on the extreme edge of survivable regions will have to leave to areas that can support them. Those that are use to living in "golden zones" are going to experience climate changes that turn those areas into very uncomfortable and potentially survivable conditions. The language is accurate, its just not precise or pretty.

leereeves 7y ago

> while the world burns (metaphorically speaking) Here's where you lose me. I don't see a world burning, and past predictions of coming apocalypse have proven false. Yes, the world is warming. We're going back to the temperature of the world a few million years ago, still much cooler than it was during most of the history of life on Earth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:All_palaeotemps.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/m...

yongjik 7y ago
Protip: If you have to argue the Earth was warmer "a few million years ago", you've lost the argument.
- leereeves 7y ago
  Not even worth responding to. That kind of low-effort comment doesn't belong here. (My original response didn't belong either, so I edited it.)
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > If your argument is that returning to temperatures a few millions years ago is apocalypse, you've lost the ability to reason. As humans did not live on Earth a few million years ago, insofar as human society is concerned, why would the fact that temperatures had previously occurred a few million years ago be even slightly inconsistent with them being apocalyptic?
    - leereeves 7y ago
      Close relatives of humans have lived on Earth for much longer. Unless you have evidence otherwise, I'm betting they required similar climate conditions.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        That they lived when the climate was significantly different and were replaced when it became more like current climate is evidence otherwise (it's not, in and of itself, conclusive evidence, but it is evidence.)
        NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        They also weren't trying to hold together an advanced technological society. Survival on the margins of existence may be possible long after society as we know it is in ruins.
        leereeves 7y ago
        Only if you make the significant (and I think unwarranted) assumption that the advantage the genus homo had over other apes was climate adaptation and not greater intelligence, standing upright, etc.
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        > Only if you make the significant (and I think unwarranted) assumption that homo sapiens' advantage over other apes was climate adaptation and not greater intelligence, standing upright, etc. No, it's evidence both for the general conclusion and that specific point, it doesn't require that point as an assumption. Evidence is any fact whose existence makes a conclusion more likely than it would be in the absence of that fact.
        leereeves 7y ago
        Given X could potentially cause Y, the fact that Y happened is not evidence of X. In other words, the mere fact that something happened isn't evidence for a proposed (even plausible) cause. Proving the cause requires further evidence.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
> don't see a world burning If the NASA and IPCC graphs of global temperature, and rate of change don't convince you, nothing will. Most predictions on climate heating are turning out to be far worse in actuality. Sea level rise is neatly tracking the IPCC's worst case prediction. Yet they're still putting out the middle ground , conservative case.
- leereeves 7y ago
  And that's evidence of warming, not "burning". Apocalyptic language is not scientific. But when the facts don't inspire action, activists resort to hyperbole and distortion.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    GP spelt out they were metaphorically speaking. I don't see them claiming to be one of the climate scientists etc. Warming or burning, it's shaping up to ruin society as we know it. At least if we are going to believe the scientists and economists at the IPCC. They seem to be expecting at least two of the four horsemen. That seems pretty apocalyptic to me. If that;s not enough to inspire action, what the hell is? New York knee deep in water?
  - seppin 7y ago
    > Apocalyptic language is not scientific Disagree. The effect to society the warming causes is apocalyptic (1 billion climate refugees). Pointing to rising sea level and temperature is the cause, the effect is our society being unrecognizable in a few short decades.
    - throwaway744678 7y ago
      Can we stop downvoting fair arguments we disagree with? Can't we just "agree to disagree" without resorting to unnecessary measures?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
senectus1 7y ago
if a child has a fever its common language to call that "burning up". This doesn't mean she incinerated it means the overall temperature of her body is increased beyond what it needs for a prolonged amount of time. Leave it like that and damage to organs will occur. Leave it too long and system failure will occur and the enough of the organs fail the entire body will die. It works the earth as well. we're in the middle of a fever, leaving it like that will cause damage to organs. Leave it too long those organs (polar regions, tropical areas, ocean temps) will fail. These failures lead to chain reactions that equate to system failures. entire regions will become uninhabitable. Those on the extreme edge of survivable regions will have to leave to areas that can support them. Those that are use to living in "golden zones" are going to experience climate changes that turn those areas into very uncomfortable and potentially survivable conditions. The language is accurate, its just not precise or pretty.