7 ms·

Football in general provides massive benefits to Universities. 1. Football (and mens basketball) are forced to pay more or less for the rest of all the other s

Football in general provides massive benefits to Universities. 1. Football (and mens basketball) are forced to pay more or less for the rest of all the other sports on campus[0]. Because of Title IX, student athletes/scholarships provided need to be equal across gender, which means that there need to be women's teams, which almost always lose money. You can make an argument that there shouldn't be other men's sports that lose money, but thats not what is being discussed. 2. Football/Collegiate sports in general are major drivers of diversity in colleges that are lacking in them. I've heard that at UC Berkeley that over half of black male students are athletes. Those are students that are very valuable for administrators trying to bring diversity to campuses. 3. Good football (and men's basketball) teams increase the rankings for the schools in general[1]. This has a demonstrable effect on student applications[2]. 4. The culture around football games is that of partying. You go out, drink for a couple of hours before the game, and then stand in the sun for a couple of hours cheering for your team. They're fun when they're competitive, but Alabama was playing competition that was sub-par, so the games were out of hand by the end. Watching something exciting is fun. Watching something boring is not. In my opinion, Nick Saban (Alabama's football coach) is probably the most underpaid state employee in the US. [0]https://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/05/05/does-football-fund-other-sports-at-college-level/#71207afe71c2 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/05/05/does-foo... [1]https://www.jstor.org/stable/27739784?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/27739784?seq=1#page_scan_tab_co... [2]https://www.nber.org/papers/w7227 https://www.nber.org/papers/w7227

s1artibartfast 7y ago
Regarding 1) Can the title IX issue be resolved by separating the sport budgets from academic budgets? If the football programs receive no money from the general budget, is their mere existence discriminatory, assuming equal numbers of scholarships are given to female athletes?
- aripickar 7y ago
  No, the number of scholarships is the issue, not the source of the dollars.
rhinoceraptor 7y ago
> probably the most underpaid state employee What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation?
- chronjc839 7y ago
  > What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation? 1. They are compensated with a degree, and not to mention the "luxury" benefits that come with being an athlete: better food, housing, tutors, golf carts for class, etc. 2. No one is forcing them to go to college.
  - rhinoceraptor 7y ago
    Just because no one is forcing them to do it doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative. No one forces people to work in sweatshops.
  - altoidaltoid 7y ago
    >20% of D1 college players don't even graduate. If you get injured, poof scholarship
- MisterBastahrd 7y ago
  They get room, board, all they can eat, an education (with an incredible amount of tutoring that is not available to the average student) and training that they absolutely could not get anywhere else. There's no market for minor league football in the US and there never will be.
  - moate 7y ago
    Of course there won't be. Why would you create a minor league football program when you're competing against colleges that have: 1- Long term history with their fans 2- Better proximity to fanbases 3- No labor costs for their players 4- Stadiums and infrastructure already in place. There is a market for minor league football, and that market is being met by college sports.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
“Nick Saban (Alabama's football coach) is probably the most underpaid state employee in the US.” A coach that makes 5 million working with athletes that aren’t paid for risking their health is underpaid?
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  There's NFL coaches making twice as much as him while producing significantly worse results. And he's certainly bringing in more than $5 million of revenue and free marketing to the university
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Then he should go to the NFL and hang with the big guys. Is he personally bringing in the millions and the athletes nothing?
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      >Is he personally bringing in the millions and the athletes nothing? I agree with the first half of your sentence and not the second. But I would argue that Saban is easily 10x more important to Alabama's success than any single athlete on the team. I think Bama's QB carousel backs up that claim. > Then he should go to the NFL and hang with the big guys. Financially that might be the best move for him, however I don't agree that everyone's main goal in life should be to maximize income. That said, if someone gave me $3 million to do a job I don't like as much as my current one, I'd jump on the opportunity. But if he's already making $5 million, there's diminishing returns.
      - partialrecall 7y ago
        > But I would argue that Saban is easily 10x more important to Alabama's success than any single athlete on the team. Maybe they should pay him 10x more than they pay the students then. What's that work out to? If the students are being compensated with free tuition, 10x that is probably a few hundred thousand dollars, right?
prh8 7y ago
Thank you for a very rare educated post in a HN discussion around sports. Wish this was a top level comment to get voted higher up.
lonelappde 7y ago
1. Sports can be financed by tuition and grants like everything else. Sports don't need to be expensive affairs with big travel and stadium budgets. 2. Since the pseudo-pro athletes are playing sports instead of studying, That's fake diversity of two separate programs in one building, like counting the cafe and janitorial staff in FAANG diversity. Better diversity would be letting diverse students in, not diverse football players. Letting students in explicitly because they provide muscle doesn't move society forward. 3. That's negative-sum, like the skyrocketing tuition due to making campuses into luxury country clubs just to compete with other schools. Rankings don't improve anything for the students and society at Aleve across the country. 4. Is negative sum. Football parties aren't a special benefit. Alcoholism and associated vices (like sexual assault) aren't a boon to a university's mission.

s1artibartfast 7y ago

Regarding 1) Can the title IX issue be resolved by separating the sport budgets from academic budgets? If the football programs receive no money from the general budget, is their mere existence discriminatory, assuming equal numbers of scholarships are given to female athletes?

aripickar 7y ago
No, the number of scholarships is the issue, not the source of the dollars.

rhinoceraptor 7y ago

> probably the most underpaid state employee What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation?

chronjc839 7y ago
> What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation? 1. They are compensated with a degree, and not to mention the "luxury" benefits that come with being an athlete: better food, housing, tutors, golf carts for class, etc. 2. No one is forcing them to go to college.
- rhinoceraptor 7y ago
  Just because no one is forcing them to do it doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative. No one forces people to work in sweatshops.
- altoidaltoid 7y ago
  >20% of D1 college players don't even graduate. If you get injured, poof scholarship
MisterBastahrd 7y ago
They get room, board, all they can eat, an education (with an incredible amount of tutoring that is not available to the average student) and training that they absolutely could not get anywhere else. There's no market for minor league football in the US and there never will be.
- moate 7y ago
  Of course there won't be. Why would you create a minor league football program when you're competing against colleges that have: 1- Long term history with their fans 2- Better proximity to fanbases 3- No labor costs for their players 4- Stadiums and infrastructure already in place. There is a market for minor league football, and that market is being met by college sports.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

“Nick Saban (Alabama's football coach) is probably the most underpaid state employee in the US.” A coach that makes 5 million working with athletes that aren’t paid for risking their health is underpaid?

Rebelgecko 7y ago
There's NFL coaches making twice as much as him while producing significantly worse results. And he's certainly bringing in more than $5 million of revenue and free marketing to the university
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Then he should go to the NFL and hang with the big guys. Is he personally bringing in the millions and the athletes nothing?
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    >Is he personally bringing in the millions and the athletes nothing? I agree with the first half of your sentence and not the second. But I would argue that Saban is easily 10x more important to Alabama's success than any single athlete on the team. I think Bama's QB carousel backs up that claim. > Then he should go to the NFL and hang with the big guys. Financially that might be the best move for him, however I don't agree that everyone's main goal in life should be to maximize income. That said, if someone gave me $3 million to do a job I don't like as much as my current one, I'd jump on the opportunity. But if he's already making $5 million, there's diminishing returns.
    - partialrecall 7y ago
      > But I would argue that Saban is easily 10x more important to Alabama's success than any single athlete on the team. Maybe they should pay him 10x more than they pay the students then. What's that work out to? If the students are being compensated with free tuition, 10x that is probably a few hundred thousand dollars, right?

prh8 7y ago

Thank you for a very rare educated post in a HN discussion around sports. Wish this was a top level comment to get voted higher up.

lonelappde 7y ago

1. Sports can be financed by tuition and grants like everything else. Sports don't need to be expensive affairs with big travel and stadium budgets. 2. Since the pseudo-pro athletes are playing sports instead of studying, That's fake diversity of two separate programs in one building, like counting the cafe and janitorial staff in FAANG diversity. Better diversity would be letting diverse students in, not diverse football players. Letting students in explicitly because they provide muscle doesn't move society forward. 3. That's negative-sum, like the skyrocketing tuition due to making campuses into luxury country clubs just to compete with other schools. Rankings don't improve anything for the students and society at Aleve across the country. 4. Is negative sum. Football parties aren't a special benefit. Alcoholism and associated vices (like sexual assault) aren't a boon to a university's mission.