6 ms·

There is college baseball. I'm firmly in the camp that sports have nothing to do with education, and there should be no association of organized sports and pub

There is college baseball. I'm firmly in the camp that sports have nothing to do with education, and there should be no association of organized sports and public educational institutions whatsoever. Gym class is one thing, but after-school sports have nothing to do with receiving a basic education.

harryh 7y ago
Why should schools only provide a basic education? There are a great many reasons to participate in after school sports: general health and fitness, teamwork, confidence, community. Schools can't do this too?
- impendia 7y ago
  Intramural, participatory sports are a wonderful thing. I have never heard anyone argue against them. They don't require stadiums with amenities that would make royalty blush, nor seven-figure salaries paid to coaches.
  - briandear 7y ago
    Do you know what revenue the Florida State, Alabama, Texas A&M football programs bring in? The head coach if Texas A&M brings more revenue and prestige to the school (and thus higher student demand, more donations, and more licensing deals,) than some professor of gender studies does. The head coach of a top tier BCS school probably is responsible for more revenue than even the president of the university. Nobody would have ever heard of Clemson or Gonzaga without sports and most of the big state schools like Michigan would have a far lower demand without their sports programs. There is some argument that colleges shouldn’t be a feeder for the NBA or NFL. Couldn’t we say the same about Google or any other tech company? Why should the universities be feeders for talent for private business? It’s ridiculous when you consider it that way. Why should Google benefit from a San Jose State University computer science graduate if the 49ers shouldn’t benefit from a UCLA student athlete? Professional sports is a significant part of the US economy. [1] We could argue that programs such as gender studies, anthropology, or Classics are both heavily subsidized and pretty useless from an economic standpoint. Yet, we pay five-figure salaries to professors and six figure salaries to administrators affiliated with those fields. I am not arguing against the value of those fields per se, only pointing out that sports are a very significant part of society and the economy, like it or not. From the benefit of the university standpoint, sports have a tremendous impact. Not many people are proud of and donate to the University of Texas because of a world-renowned ancient literature program — but because of football. I don’t particularly like college football — I prefer baseball, however it is an exciting part of the year, especially if you are a student or alum. We waste billions of government money on ridiculous projects all the time. I think the price tag on California’s high speed train to Bakersfield is in the multi-billions? There is government funding to study the sex habits of tsetse flies? $38 million in federal money was wasted on a Ted Kennedy institute? We subsidize NPR and the National Endowment of the Arts. To be clear, I am not arguing against the National Endowment generally, only suggesting that most people don’t care about the next Mapplethorpe as they care about the next Tom Brady. Giving $5 of government money to subsidize an exhibition of Andres Serrano whose art featured a crucifix submerged in his own urine or $5 to a high school or college athletic program? Or $5 to a gender studies program? What choice would most people make? Personally, I would vote to just keep my $5 and let the people that wanted those programs to pay for it out of their own pocket. So why are we complaining about college sports again — something tens of millions of people care about. NPR has about 30 million listeners. College football has an audience of over 160 million people. [2] The LSU-Texas game last weekend had over 5 million viewers. That’s about 6 times as many viewers as CNN gets during prime time. [1] https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2011/09/09/how_the_nfl_affects_the_us_economy.html https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2011/09/09/how_the_n... [2] https://footballfoundation.org/news/2019/6/11/2018-19_Attendance_Release.aspx https://footballfoundation.org/news/2019/6/11/2018-19_Attend...
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      > Couldn’t we say the same about Google or any other tech company? Why should the universities be feeders for talent for private business? It’s ridiculous when you consider it that way. Why should Google benefit from a San Jose State University computer science graduate if the 49ers shouldn’t benefit from a UCLA student athlete? I've been saying precisely this. The public is footing the bill for training employees for corporations.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  The reason is money. Where I'm from, only the rich kids do after school sports. The poor kids have two working parents and they can't afford to miss work to pick them up after school. We're subsidizing the rich kids to play sports with public funds, and that's total BS. Not everyone lives in a city, so they can't just take a public bus home after school and the after-school activity buses were canceled.
  - harryh 7y ago
    You've completely changed your argument. First it was "sports have nothing to do with receiving a basic education." Now you concede that participating in sports can be a big positive, but in some cases a positive only available to the children of richer students. To that I say: 1) Plenty of poor kids do find ways to participate in school sports. Let's not throw that baby out with the bathwater. 2) Where this is not possible, it would be better to find ways to make it possible than to get rid of something good for everyone.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      I never said sports were bad. Organized team sports after-school are not part of a basic education. Since after-school sports activities favor the well-off, we should not use public funds for such activities. Those education dollars should be spent to help the education part, not the rich-kid sports part. If you want to have public sports programs, that's fine. It has nothing to do with school, should be an entirely separate pool of money, and IMO, should be entirely self-funded.
  - magduf 7y ago
    In better-run countries, poor kids don't need to be picked up by parents, or take a bus home; instead, they just walk home.
    - reroute1 7y ago
      WOW! What a well run country where people walk home...
partialrecall 7y ago
Compare the proportion of MLB players that came from the university system, and the proportion of NFL players that did. Most MLB players come from minor leagues operating independantly from the university system. I'm not suggesting that universities ban sports clubs. I object to university systems become the primary feeder for corporate professional leagues. American Football and Basketball do it. Baseball and normal Football do not.
- magduf 7y ago
  >American Football and Basketball do it. Baseball and normal Football do not. It would be so much easier if they just called American Football "handegg".
- frogpelt 7y ago
  You can object to sports feeding corporate. But university feed corporations in every area. I object to tuition going up 8% a year for the last 3 decades That's a much bigger problem even though it's sort of topic to the original article.
grogenaut 7y ago
I learned as much playing sports in highschool as I did in classes. They helped me mature greatly and were a great fit with my adolescent frustrations and anger. My mom tried to keep me out in 7th grade because she thought I'd get hurt. In 8th I had grown so she let me play. She says this was by fat the best decision she ever made, change was marked in weeks. For context had pretty heavy ADD (still do) and was pretty large and had a temper. I was able to channel and leverage those in sports and figure out how to be productive and not just an angry ass. In college sports (D3, which is a different ballgame and likely closer to what most people would imagine as "clubs") I learned a bunch as well, about leadership, organization, time management etc. We actually did much better in class during season because we had -5 hours a week of free time due to sports. My university's sports are all funded through a calculation they did on alumni donations. Those who played sports are most likely to give money, so they keep the sports going as it has a marked impact on donations.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

harryh 7y ago

Why should schools only provide a basic education? There are a great many reasons to participate in after school sports: general health and fitness, teamwork, confidence, community. Schools can't do this too?

impendia 7y ago
Intramural, participatory sports are a wonderful thing. I have never heard anyone argue against them. They don't require stadiums with amenities that would make royalty blush, nor seven-figure salaries paid to coaches.
- briandear 7y ago
  Do you know what revenue the Florida State, Alabama, Texas A&M football programs bring in? The head coach if Texas A&M brings more revenue and prestige to the school (and thus higher student demand, more donations, and more licensing deals,) than some professor of gender studies does. The head coach of a top tier BCS school probably is responsible for more revenue than even the president of the university. Nobody would have ever heard of Clemson or Gonzaga without sports and most of the big state schools like Michigan would have a far lower demand without their sports programs. There is some argument that colleges shouldn’t be a feeder for the NBA or NFL. Couldn’t we say the same about Google or any other tech company? Why should the universities be feeders for talent for private business? It’s ridiculous when you consider it that way. Why should Google benefit from a San Jose State University computer science graduate if the 49ers shouldn’t benefit from a UCLA student athlete? Professional sports is a significant part of the US economy. [1] We could argue that programs such as gender studies, anthropology, or Classics are both heavily subsidized and pretty useless from an economic standpoint. Yet, we pay five-figure salaries to professors and six figure salaries to administrators affiliated with those fields. I am not arguing against the value of those fields per se, only pointing out that sports are a very significant part of society and the economy, like it or not. From the benefit of the university standpoint, sports have a tremendous impact. Not many people are proud of and donate to the University of Texas because of a world-renowned ancient literature program — but because of football. I don’t particularly like college football — I prefer baseball, however it is an exciting part of the year, especially if you are a student or alum. We waste billions of government money on ridiculous projects all the time. I think the price tag on California’s high speed train to Bakersfield is in the multi-billions? There is government funding to study the sex habits of tsetse flies? $38 million in federal money was wasted on a Ted Kennedy institute? We subsidize NPR and the National Endowment of the Arts. To be clear, I am not arguing against the National Endowment generally, only suggesting that most people don’t care about the next Mapplethorpe as they care about the next Tom Brady. Giving $5 of government money to subsidize an exhibition of Andres Serrano whose art featured a crucifix submerged in his own urine or $5 to a high school or college athletic program? Or $5 to a gender studies program? What choice would most people make? Personally, I would vote to just keep my $5 and let the people that wanted those programs to pay for it out of their own pocket. So why are we complaining about college sports again — something tens of millions of people care about. NPR has about 30 million listeners. College football has an audience of over 160 million people. [2] The LSU-Texas game last weekend had over 5 million viewers. That’s about 6 times as many viewers as CNN gets during prime time. [1] https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2011/09/09/how_the_nfl_affects_the_us_economy.html https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2011/09/09/how_the_n... [2] https://footballfoundation.org/news/2019/6/11/2018-19_Attendance_Release.aspx https://footballfoundation.org/news/2019/6/11/2018-19_Attend...
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    > Couldn’t we say the same about Google or any other tech company? Why should the universities be feeders for talent for private business? It’s ridiculous when you consider it that way. Why should Google benefit from a San Jose State University computer science graduate if the 49ers shouldn’t benefit from a UCLA student athlete? I've been saying precisely this. The public is footing the bill for training employees for corporations.
linuxftw 7y ago
The reason is money. Where I'm from, only the rich kids do after school sports. The poor kids have two working parents and they can't afford to miss work to pick them up after school. We're subsidizing the rich kids to play sports with public funds, and that's total BS. Not everyone lives in a city, so they can't just take a public bus home after school and the after-school activity buses were canceled.
- harryh 7y ago
  You've completely changed your argument. First it was "sports have nothing to do with receiving a basic education." Now you concede that participating in sports can be a big positive, but in some cases a positive only available to the children of richer students. To that I say: 1) Plenty of poor kids do find ways to participate in school sports. Let's not throw that baby out with the bathwater. 2) Where this is not possible, it would be better to find ways to make it possible than to get rid of something good for everyone.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    I never said sports were bad. Organized team sports after-school are not part of a basic education. Since after-school sports activities favor the well-off, we should not use public funds for such activities. Those education dollars should be spent to help the education part, not the rich-kid sports part. If you want to have public sports programs, that's fine. It has nothing to do with school, should be an entirely separate pool of money, and IMO, should be entirely self-funded.
- magduf 7y ago
  In better-run countries, poor kids don't need to be picked up by parents, or take a bus home; instead, they just walk home.
  - reroute1 7y ago
    WOW! What a well run country where people walk home...

partialrecall 7y ago

Compare the proportion of MLB players that came from the university system, and the proportion of NFL players that did. Most MLB players come from minor leagues operating independantly from the university system. I'm not suggesting that universities ban sports clubs. I object to university systems become the primary feeder for corporate professional leagues. American Football and Basketball do it. Baseball and normal Football do not.

magduf 7y ago
>American Football and Basketball do it. Baseball and normal Football do not. It would be so much easier if they just called American Football "handegg".
frogpelt 7y ago
You can object to sports feeding corporate. But university feed corporations in every area. I object to tuition going up 8% a year for the last 3 decades That's a much bigger problem even though it's sort of topic to the original article.

grogenaut 7y ago

I learned as much playing sports in highschool as I did in classes. They helped me mature greatly and were a great fit with my adolescent frustrations and anger. My mom tried to keep me out in 7th grade because she thought I'd get hurt. In 8th I had grown so she let me play. She says this was by fat the best decision she ever made, change was marked in weeks. For context had pretty heavy ADD (still do) and was pretty large and had a temper. I was able to channel and leverage those in sports and figure out how to be productive and not just an angry ass. In college sports (D3, which is a different ballgame and likely closer to what most people would imagine as "clubs") I learned a bunch as well, about leadership, organization, time management etc. We actually did much better in class during season because we had -5 hours a week of free time due to sports. My university's sports are all funded through a calculation they did on alumni donations. Those who played sports are most likely to give money, so they keep the sports going as it has a marked impact on donations.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]