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People hate hypocrisy. Greta may be innocent, but her helpers buy far, far more plane tickets than us - her target audience. Scratch most environmentalist atte

People hate hypocrisy. Greta may be innocent, but her helpers buy far, far more plane tickets than us - her target audience. Scratch most environmentalist attention-seekers, and you'll find hypocrisy. Look at Prince Harry.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
That doesn't make the message wrong.
- edejong 7y ago
  People don’t make purely rational decisions, especially for ‘saviors’ and especially when it’s about respect.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    Sadly, that means that there's no means to convince them. If she'd done it in a rubber dingy and swam back across they would have rejected her on other grounds.
    - throwaway744678 7y ago
      This would have been a PR stunt all the same, though.
jedberg 7y ago
Commercial air travel pales in comparison to industrial CO2 output. It’s definitely something, but even if all air travel stopped it would barely make a dent.
seppin 7y ago
People hate anyone else telling them what they should be doing, even if they are correct in doing so. The fact that it's a young girl is even more threatening for many adult men.
andrepd 7y ago
She sailed across the Atlantic in an 18m carbon-neutral boat, but that still isn't enough for some people. Sheesh.
- mopsi 7y ago
  And the crew had to be flown to New York to sail back, resulting in more emissions than if she had flown there. People just can't stand such hypocrisy.
  - andrepd 7y ago
    They are doing work that hopefully will result in manifold more benefit than boycotting a plane ride. If they don't fly they can't attend conferences, mobilise people, etc. What do you want them to do? Stop using computers and phones while they're at it? It's the same reasoning of the classic "you defend socialism yet you buy products made under capitalism, oh my what a hypocrite".
    - mopsi 7y ago
      > What do you want them to do? Set a personal example. I respect Ed Begley a lot for adopting a small carbon footprint lifestyle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Begley_Jr.#Environmental https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Begley_Jr.#Environmental, house tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3uedeCKj4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3uedeCKj4 It's much more inspiring than just talking about it while polluting more than the average person.
  - the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
    > the crew had to be flown to New York to sail back I'm pretty sure the crew decided to fly back not because of her but because they wanted.
  - atoav 7y ago
    I happen to have heard an interview with one of the sailors who was on the ship with her in the radio. He said that they took her there and they would have also done it with out her. He additionally added: Greta is not responsible for anything we do outside of taking her across the Atlantic. The whole discussion is – frankly – quite ridiculous. Anybody who likes to lead it should really sit down, pause and really ask themselves what they are doing and why. There is really only one compelling reason that comes to my mind why one would find the motivation to critizise environmentalists online for not beeing environmentalistic enough: their actions make you feel bad for some reason. You want the bad feeling to go away, so you find a explaination why they are bad. But it turns out the world still thinks they are good. Now you are in a bit of a problem. So you go online and try to change the world. Only: it might be better for you and everybody around you if you instead went and tried to change yourself. This is of course much much harder, but lying to yourself about your own motivations has also it's costs..
montalbano 7y ago
Could you clarify who you refer to when you say her 'helpers'? At present, the comment reads as rather generalised slander.
nakedlunch 7y ago
I really don’t enjoy when this form of argument comes up, because it strikes me as both lazy and extremely unlikely that the speaker puts the same conditions on his own conduct. I think you can both fly on planes and believe we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels dramatically. You can both believe that we should pay more tax to fund public services while not donating additional income to the government. You can work for Amazon while thinking they should pay their workers more. You can believe that the way the food industry treats animals is awful without being a vegan. In my opinion, being a complete paragon of virtue is not a prerequisite of having an opinion on what would make the world a better place.
ForHackernews 7y ago
Ok, so just exactly who will these people listen to about the climate crisis? Because from where I'm sitting, no messenger is ever going to measure up to this exacting standard of personal purity. We saw this 15 years ago with Al Gore, too. Who cares if he's right, he lives in a big house!
- throwaway744678 7y ago
  The guy is explaining to us poor fuckers how we should turn off the faucet while brushing our teeth, yet travels the world 24/7 between his private jet and his SUV? Sure, sounds totally honest and convincing.
epistasis 7y ago
I don't think that's the case at all, the "hypocrisy" is just an excuse for their opposition to her message. We all live in this system, and she's not advocating for living outside the system, she's advocating for changing it. Nobody is advocating for everybody stopping flying tomorrow. We're advocating for developing technology so that within a few decades we can be carbon neutral.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > Nobody is advocating for everybody stopping flying tomorrow. Have you heard about flight shaming? Some aren't just advocating for it, they are trying to enforce it.
  - epistasis 7y ago
    Flight shaming is great, and we should all feel guilty when we fly, but that doesn't mean we stop tomorrow.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      > but that doesn't mean we stop tomorrow Sure, sure. So trying to enforce it doesn't mean you'd argue for it? Sorry, that doesn't compute. It's fine to argue for it, btw. But claiming that "nobody does that"? Come on, that's nonsense.
- BrandonMarc 7y ago
  > Nobody is advocating for everybody stopping flying tomorrow. You should read the Green New Deal. Not tomorrow, no, but one goal is to make flying infinitesimally rare.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

That doesn't make the message wrong.

edejong 7y ago
People don’t make purely rational decisions, especially for ‘saviors’ and especially when it’s about respect.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  Sadly, that means that there's no means to convince them. If she'd done it in a rubber dingy and swam back across they would have rejected her on other grounds.
  - throwaway744678 7y ago
    This would have been a PR stunt all the same, though.

jedberg 7y ago

Commercial air travel pales in comparison to industrial CO2 output. It’s definitely something, but even if all air travel stopped it would barely make a dent.

seppin 7y ago

People hate anyone else telling them what they should be doing, even if they are correct in doing so. The fact that it's a young girl is even more threatening for many adult men.

andrepd 7y ago

She sailed across the Atlantic in an 18m carbon-neutral boat, but that still isn't enough for some people. Sheesh.

mopsi 7y ago
And the crew had to be flown to New York to sail back, resulting in more emissions than if she had flown there. People just can't stand such hypocrisy.
- andrepd 7y ago
  They are doing work that hopefully will result in manifold more benefit than boycotting a plane ride. If they don't fly they can't attend conferences, mobilise people, etc. What do you want them to do? Stop using computers and phones while they're at it? It's the same reasoning of the classic "you defend socialism yet you buy products made under capitalism, oh my what a hypocrite".
  - mopsi 7y ago
    > What do you want them to do? Set a personal example. I respect Ed Begley a lot for adopting a small carbon footprint lifestyle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Begley_Jr.#Environmental https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Begley_Jr.#Environmental, house tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3uedeCKj4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3uedeCKj4 It's much more inspiring than just talking about it while polluting more than the average person.
- the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
  > the crew had to be flown to New York to sail back I'm pretty sure the crew decided to fly back not because of her but because they wanted.
- atoav 7y ago
  I happen to have heard an interview with one of the sailors who was on the ship with her in the radio. He said that they took her there and they would have also done it with out her. He additionally added: Greta is not responsible for anything we do outside of taking her across the Atlantic. The whole discussion is – frankly – quite ridiculous. Anybody who likes to lead it should really sit down, pause and really ask themselves what they are doing and why. There is really only one compelling reason that comes to my mind why one would find the motivation to critizise environmentalists online for not beeing environmentalistic enough: their actions make you feel bad for some reason. You want the bad feeling to go away, so you find a explaination why they are bad. But it turns out the world still thinks they are good. Now you are in a bit of a problem. So you go online and try to change the world. Only: it might be better for you and everybody around you if you instead went and tried to change yourself. This is of course much much harder, but lying to yourself about your own motivations has also it's costs..

montalbano 7y ago

Could you clarify who you refer to when you say her 'helpers'? At present, the comment reads as rather generalised slander.

nakedlunch 7y ago

I really don’t enjoy when this form of argument comes up, because it strikes me as both lazy and extremely unlikely that the speaker puts the same conditions on his own conduct. I think you can both fly on planes and believe we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels dramatically. You can both believe that we should pay more tax to fund public services while not donating additional income to the government. You can work for Amazon while thinking they should pay their workers more. You can believe that the way the food industry treats animals is awful without being a vegan. In my opinion, being a complete paragon of virtue is not a prerequisite of having an opinion on what would make the world a better place.

ForHackernews 7y ago

Ok, so just exactly who will these people listen to about the climate crisis? Because from where I'm sitting, no messenger is ever going to measure up to this exacting standard of personal purity. We saw this 15 years ago with Al Gore, too. Who cares if he's right, he lives in a big house!

throwaway744678 7y ago
The guy is explaining to us poor fuckers how we should turn off the faucet while brushing our teeth, yet travels the world 24/7 between his private jet and his SUV? Sure, sounds totally honest and convincing.

epistasis 7y ago

I don't think that's the case at all, the "hypocrisy" is just an excuse for their opposition to her message. We all live in this system, and she's not advocating for living outside the system, she's advocating for changing it. Nobody is advocating for everybody stopping flying tomorrow. We're advocating for developing technology so that within a few decades we can be carbon neutral.

luckylion 7y ago
> Nobody is advocating for everybody stopping flying tomorrow. Have you heard about flight shaming? Some aren't just advocating for it, they are trying to enforce it.
- epistasis 7y ago
  Flight shaming is great, and we should all feel guilty when we fly, but that doesn't mean we stop tomorrow.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > but that doesn't mean we stop tomorrow Sure, sure. So trying to enforce it doesn't mean you'd argue for it? Sorry, that doesn't compute. It's fine to argue for it, btw. But claiming that "nobody does that"? Come on, that's nonsense.
BrandonMarc 7y ago
> Nobody is advocating for everybody stopping flying tomorrow. You should read the Green New Deal. Not tomorrow, no, but one goal is to make flying infinitesimally rare.