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This isn't a comment about Holberton (which I can't speak for), and sure an $85k cap for a school with no instructors is high, but I'd just like to point out th

This isn't a comment about Holberton (which I can't speak for), and sure an $85k cap for a school with no instructors is high, but I'd just like to point out that the methodology of "I'm going to find 3-4 students who want to complain about their school off the record" is not a good way to consider the quality of schools. Imagine what would happen if someone went after... any school you've ever attended with such an approach. Think they could find a half dozen students to rant and rave about how the school was awful? Certainly. Of course, I'm biased - she has another thread about Lambda School (where I'm CEO), and reading the criticisms I know exactly who the students are. It says something that of the 6,000+ Lambda School students of all-time I can pick out the 3 or 4 complaining from the complaints, and if you dug into those students' complaints you would find there's much more at play than what is mentioned.

tryitnow 7y ago
Hmmm, I don't think that's what's going on here. I think the critics are making specific critiques relevant to the supposedly novel nature of Holberton and Lambda. While I was initially supportive of these institutions, I'm now a lot more skeptical. I just don't see the value-add. The incentives don't seem to be aligned and the fact that these institutions are backed by VCs makes me especially suspicious since the VC model requires rapid growth or else dissolution. That financial model makes absolutely no sense for an educational institution. If you're getting an education you want the institution to be around for a while. Whereas if you're a VC you could care less if it dies if it doesn't deliver 10X returns. I don't see a positive ending for these types of institutions unless something really radical changes in their business models.
hysan 7y ago
Agreed. I still think it is valuable information based on the discussions it can drive. I appreciate your willingness to participate in these threads, be transparent, and show how hands-on you are with your school/students. However, I’m going to put you on the spotlight for a bit if that is ok. Right now, Lambda School is young enough that the amount of collected outlier feedback can be easily remembered. Doubly so since you can still interact with this outlier population at the scale you operate at. However... 1. Instead of the bottom 0.1%, what about the bottom 1% or 10%? Will you be able to remember/account for all of these students as you grow in scale over a long period of time? What’s your strategy for this? 2. There will come a point where one person cannot handle all of the outliers. There will also come a point where your priorities are pushed elsewhere. Do you feel that it’s more important for you to be central in handling these issues or will this responsibility be handed off? How will quality be ensured? I agree that you should not extrapolate from such a small sample size. However, I believe that to take ownership after a spotlight has been shone upon the worst instances would be to not discredit the feedback. Instead, offer up the insights on what actual patterns emerged from larger population findings, own any that correlated, and show how these were/are planned to be addressed. Individual teachers have to deal with this all the time. Sometimes with additional metrics evaluating their every move. It would be nice to see someone at a higher institutional level be an example of how negative outliers are handled, not only from the bottom up, but from the top down. Lastly, while Lambda School might be an exception, that doesn’t mean all bootcamps operate the same.
- austenallred 7y ago
  We have an entire team called the "student success" team, and it's certainly not one person. We collect feedback at the end of every lesson, every day, every unit, every build week, etc. and we can see and resolve any issues (be they across the school or with an individual) virtually immediately. The student success team monitors feedback and looks into how students are doing every day, and that team grows as the school scales. Our full staff is 130+ people full-time, and and every single student is in a group of 8 students with one Team Lead who spends on on one time with them and reports on it every single day. That's why it's odd to me that I know who all of those students are. I shouldn't. There's no way I should be able to identify them that easily, and if it were the 1% of 10% of students complaining there's no way I'd be able to map back from the complaints to individual students.

tryitnow 7y ago

Hmmm, I don't think that's what's going on here. I think the critics are making specific critiques relevant to the supposedly novel nature of Holberton and Lambda. While I was initially supportive of these institutions, I'm now a lot more skeptical. I just don't see the value-add. The incentives don't seem to be aligned and the fact that these institutions are backed by VCs makes me especially suspicious since the VC model requires rapid growth or else dissolution. That financial model makes absolutely no sense for an educational institution. If you're getting an education you want the institution to be around for a while. Whereas if you're a VC you could care less if it dies if it doesn't deliver 10X returns. I don't see a positive ending for these types of institutions unless something really radical changes in their business models.

hysan 7y ago

Agreed. I still think it is valuable information based on the discussions it can drive. I appreciate your willingness to participate in these threads, be transparent, and show how hands-on you are with your school/students. However, I’m going to put you on the spotlight for a bit if that is ok. Right now, Lambda School is young enough that the amount of collected outlier feedback can be easily remembered. Doubly so since you can still interact with this outlier population at the scale you operate at. However... 1. Instead of the bottom 0.1%, what about the bottom 1% or 10%? Will you be able to remember/account for all of these students as you grow in scale over a long period of time? What’s your strategy for this? 2. There will come a point where one person cannot handle all of the outliers. There will also come a point where your priorities are pushed elsewhere. Do you feel that it’s more important for you to be central in handling these issues or will this responsibility be handed off? How will quality be ensured? I agree that you should not extrapolate from such a small sample size. However, I believe that to take ownership after a spotlight has been shone upon the worst instances would be to not discredit the feedback. Instead, offer up the insights on what actual patterns emerged from larger population findings, own any that correlated, and show how these were/are planned to be addressed. Individual teachers have to deal with this all the time. Sometimes with additional metrics evaluating their every move. It would be nice to see someone at a higher institutional level be an example of how negative outliers are handled, not only from the bottom up, but from the top down. Lastly, while Lambda School might be an exception, that doesn’t mean all bootcamps operate the same.

austenallred 7y ago
We have an entire team called the "student success" team, and it's certainly not one person. We collect feedback at the end of every lesson, every day, every unit, every build week, etc. and we can see and resolve any issues (be they across the school or with an individual) virtually immediately. The student success team monitors feedback and looks into how students are doing every day, and that team grows as the school scales. Our full staff is 130+ people full-time, and and every single student is in a group of 8 students with one Team Lead who spends on on one time with them and reports on it every single day. That's why it's odd to me that I know who all of those students are. I shouldn't. There's no way I should be able to identify them that easily, and if it were the 1% of 10% of students complaining there's no way I'd be able to map back from the complaints to individual students.