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The unspoken claim here is that if he'd gone to college and pursued a liberal arts degree that he'd be better off now. The evidence in the article however says

The unspoken claim here is that if he'd gone to college and pursued a liberal arts degree that he'd be better off now. The evidence in the article however says the opposite. He'd have even more debt and even lower prospects after failing to complete that degree.

ska 7y ago
I don't think that's the claim at all; Rather that there is a common but unrealistic, if not downright dishonest, narrative about opportunity and working class jobs and it is doing a disservice to people. It's also plausibly a tool for people in other economic sectors to pretend any problems these people have are "their own fault". I think that thesis is pretty defensible. Clearly a liberal arts, or for that matter professional, degree isn't for everyone. On the other hand, pretending that some sort of idealized working class living exists in the US today for anyone who just wants it enough and will work hard is disingenuous at best. There has been a lot of cynically dishonest political rhetoric around these topics in recent decades.
jrumbut 7y ago
The claim is very much not that he should have gotten a different degree, but that there is no decent path to upward mobility for this seemingly decent person (or at least welding is not that path). Some have been arguing that skilled trades are the answer to those who are facing a lack of opportunity, this looks in depth at how one person's attempt to join the skilled trades went (poorly) and also looks at statistics for welders generally and shows that it's a mixed bag.
Medicalidiot 7y ago
Maybe I missed that part of the article where it was a direct comparison of welding to a liberal arts degree outside of the politician comparing philosophy to welding. Philosophers make more money than biochemists, FYI. What are your sources about the opposite occurring? If one goes to an instate school s/he can do fairly well with a liberal arts degree.
- readams 7y ago
  It's clear he doesn't do well in traditional liberal arts subjects. The question here isn't really liberal arts vs welding. It's that the narrative for a long time had been that college for everyone is a solution. For those students who will do well there, it is a solution. But it's not a good idea for everyone. While it's true welders aren't rich, the question is actually how to provide education resources to allow everyone to see succeed to their ability, without making your parents' wealth the biggest factor. I think it's clear that vocational education is a part of this, and that college for all is not.
  - Medicalidiot 7y ago
    Oh, that's a completely different discussion altogether! I agree with you though.

ska 7y ago

I don't think that's the claim at all; Rather that there is a common but unrealistic, if not downright dishonest, narrative about opportunity and working class jobs and it is doing a disservice to people. It's also plausibly a tool for people in other economic sectors to pretend any problems these people have are "their own fault". I think that thesis is pretty defensible. Clearly a liberal arts, or for that matter professional, degree isn't for everyone. On the other hand, pretending that some sort of idealized working class living exists in the US today for anyone who just wants it enough and will work hard is disingenuous at best. There has been a lot of cynically dishonest political rhetoric around these topics in recent decades.

jrumbut 7y ago

The claim is very much not that he should have gotten a different degree, but that there is no decent path to upward mobility for this seemingly decent person (or at least welding is not that path). Some have been arguing that skilled trades are the answer to those who are facing a lack of opportunity, this looks in depth at how one person's attempt to join the skilled trades went (poorly) and also looks at statistics for welders generally and shows that it's a mixed bag.

Medicalidiot 7y ago

Maybe I missed that part of the article where it was a direct comparison of welding to a liberal arts degree outside of the politician comparing philosophy to welding. Philosophers make more money than biochemists, FYI. What are your sources about the opposite occurring? If one goes to an instate school s/he can do fairly well with a liberal arts degree.

readams 7y ago
It's clear he doesn't do well in traditional liberal arts subjects. The question here isn't really liberal arts vs welding. It's that the narrative for a long time had been that college for everyone is a solution. For those students who will do well there, it is a solution. But it's not a good idea for everyone. While it's true welders aren't rich, the question is actually how to provide education resources to allow everyone to see succeed to their ability, without making your parents' wealth the biggest factor. I think it's clear that vocational education is a part of this, and that college for all is not.
- Medicalidiot 7y ago
  Oh, that's a completely different discussion altogether! I agree with you though.