3 ms·

There are no nice words to describe how beyond insane this belief is. Governments are charging for providing an environment in which you can have a business in

There are no nice words to describe how beyond insane this belief is. Governments are charging for providing an environment in which you can have a business in the first place. Good luck running a business in a place without police, laws, basic infrastructure like roads etc. And if you don't want to pay taxes in some place, you're free to not do business there. Doesn't fit the definition of theft very well now, does it?

hartator 7y ago
> Good luck running a business in a place without police, laws, basic infrastructure like roads etc. Basically the Internet.
- chmod775 7y ago
  The internet is infrastructure. So is a postal system that gets your wares to your customer. Or the banking systems and laws that make it possible for you to receive money via the internet in the first place. If some customer in country X doesn't pay you for your services, you fully expect the government of that country to have systems in place that allow you to go after what you're owed. But even darknet drug markets rely on a lot of infrastructure provided by countries/governments at the end of the day.
- oblio 7y ago
  Sorry, but, LOL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA#Past_or_transitioned_projects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA#Past_or_transitioned_pro... -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web The internet was built with public money and only extended with private money.
OCASM 7y ago
Do people have a choice to opt out of those services and therefore their corresponding payments? No. They're forced on the citizens, ergo, theft. You can have a government without taxation. Fund it through voluntary contributions. It would be much smaller, which is another plus.
- sgift 7y ago
  > Do people have a choice to opt out of those services and therefore their corresponding payments? Yes. Move yourself out of the country somewhere else (and in the case of the US give up your citizenship). My go to recommendation here is Somalia for the "taxation is theft" crowd
  - OCASM 7y ago
    So no, they don't have that choice.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    It's not an opt out if I have to give up my home. It's my house and land, why can't I force your government to leave?
    - m-p-3 7y ago
      Because that goverment was democratically elected and have the legitimacy to decide.
- m-p-3 7y ago
  If you decide to live outside of society, hidden in a shack in a self-sustained manner then maybe you could live tax-free, but you wouldn't be entitled to any subsidized services (varies by country) like healthcare, police protection, water treatment, driving on public roads, etc. At some point, it's just easier to get taxes and let the authorities to determine where that money should be distributed to best serve the society that elected them. And if you don't like the way they redistribute that wealth then you're free to vote for someone else or get yourself elected to do things differently.
ajconway 7y ago
While taxes are a sane and common way for a government to make money, there are countries where there is either no corporate tax at all, or only some industries are taxed. Additionally, there are places where corporations do pay taxes, but personal income is tax free. Looking far into the future, in a post-scarcity civilization taxes are obviously unnecessary. So, while not a theft, it's not insane to wish for taxes to be gone in one's country.
- chmod775 7y ago
  > Additionally, there are places where corporations do pay taxes, but personal income is tax free. Which is only possible because they either have lucrative (taxed) tourism industries, are rich in oil, or are Monaco (sorry but you're not getting in), Nauru (enjoy your stay while you can), Somalia (need I say more), or the Sahwari Republic (good luck). So you either have places where governments are lucky to have found some other way to make money, or dysfunctional countries. At the end of the day governments need to get currency somehow to provide the basics.

hartator 7y ago

> Good luck running a business in a place without police, laws, basic infrastructure like roads etc. Basically the Internet.

chmod775 7y ago
The internet is infrastructure. So is a postal system that gets your wares to your customer. Or the banking systems and laws that make it possible for you to receive money via the internet in the first place. If some customer in country X doesn't pay you for your services, you fully expect the government of that country to have systems in place that allow you to go after what you're owed. But even darknet drug markets rely on a lot of infrastructure provided by countries/governments at the end of the day.
oblio 7y ago
Sorry, but, LOL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA#Past_or_transitioned_projects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA#Past_or_transitioned_pro... -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web The internet was built with public money and only extended with private money.

OCASM 7y ago

Do people have a choice to opt out of those services and therefore their corresponding payments? No. They're forced on the citizens, ergo, theft. You can have a government without taxation. Fund it through voluntary contributions. It would be much smaller, which is another plus.

sgift 7y ago
> Do people have a choice to opt out of those services and therefore their corresponding payments? Yes. Move yourself out of the country somewhere else (and in the case of the US give up your citizenship). My go to recommendation here is Somalia for the "taxation is theft" crowd
- OCASM 7y ago
  So no, they don't have that choice.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  It's not an opt out if I have to give up my home. It's my house and land, why can't I force your government to leave?
  - m-p-3 7y ago
    Because that goverment was democratically elected and have the legitimacy to decide.
m-p-3 7y ago
If you decide to live outside of society, hidden in a shack in a self-sustained manner then maybe you could live tax-free, but you wouldn't be entitled to any subsidized services (varies by country) like healthcare, police protection, water treatment, driving on public roads, etc. At some point, it's just easier to get taxes and let the authorities to determine where that money should be distributed to best serve the society that elected them. And if you don't like the way they redistribute that wealth then you're free to vote for someone else or get yourself elected to do things differently.

ajconway 7y ago

While taxes are a sane and common way for a government to make money, there are countries where there is either no corporate tax at all, or only some industries are taxed. Additionally, there are places where corporations do pay taxes, but personal income is tax free. Looking far into the future, in a post-scarcity civilization taxes are obviously unnecessary. So, while not a theft, it's not insane to wish for taxes to be gone in one's country.

chmod775 7y ago
> Additionally, there are places where corporations do pay taxes, but personal income is tax free. Which is only possible because they either have lucrative (taxed) tourism industries, are rich in oil, or are Monaco (sorry but you're not getting in), Nauru (enjoy your stay while you can), Somalia (need I say more), or the Sahwari Republic (good luck). So you either have places where governments are lucky to have found some other way to make money, or dysfunctional countries. At the end of the day governments need to get currency somehow to provide the basics.