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Hundreds of dogs in Norway hit by mystery illness
- kristofferR 7y agoMore info: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/10/europe/norway-dog-disease-intl-hnk-scli/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/10/europe/norway-dog-disease... Spain is advising people dog owners to not travel with their dogs to Norway. There are fears that it might spread to other countries, it spread all over Norway quickly without any logical common cause found.
- mogadsheu 7y agoOne possibility is that the disease is carried by humans and affects dogs more heavily. When I lived in Norway mild flu symptoms would spread through society and quickly, especially when the weather would start to turn cold and dark.
- pvaldes 7y agoHumans and dogs do not share many diseases. Flu are too different in both species. All the cases would be spatially related in this case. With most cases in a small area instead some animals falling ill here and there.
- tomatotomato37 7y agoThe carrier doesn't have to get sick with the disease to spread it; most of our insect-transmitted diseases don't affect the insect in any manner after all.
- bayesian_horse 7y agoIt sounded like you can rule out transmission through insects due to the patterns. Transmission through latent infection of Humans would also be strange. Dog to Dog would be more probable. Of course, Humans accidentally transfer pathogens from animal to animal all the time.
- jacquesm 7y agoThat would be a pretty bad thing to jump the species barrier given the proximity of us and our pets and the apparently high mortality. This is the one thing I keep coming back to: we are but one small mutation away from some very bad disease jumping from cows, pigs (very likely due to anatomical resemblance), fowl (chickens) or pets such as cats or dogs to us humans with disastrous consequences. And we'd be about as prepared as a sitting duck is for acute lead poisoning. Large numbers of cases like these in pets are always scary for that reason. See also 'avian bird flu' for another example of this as well as this one: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-pig-virus-potential-threat-humans.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-pig-virus-potential-t...
- beat 7y agoMany of our worst diseases historically are species-jumpers, including influenza and smallpox. "Bird flu" and "swine flu" are so named because that's where they start.
- kijin 7y agoHIV is believed to have come from monkeys and/or chimps. You can get Ebola from bats and other wild animals.
- maxerickson 7y agoCompare the Spanish flu (the 1918 pandemic) to more recent pandemics. The recent pandemics are still scary, but the tools we use against them also clearly work.
- cowmoo728 7y agoThe methods to create a global flu pandemic have already been documented. Ferrets are great flu incubators and can serve as hosts to selectively breed deadly, highly transmissible flu. I hope world governments are keeping a close eye on Ron Fouchier, because if I were a Bond supervillain my plan would be to kidnap him and force him to create a superflu. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/09/flu-researcher-ron-fouchier-loses-legal-fight-over-h5n1-studies https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/09/flu-researcher-ron-f... Note that even though he lost this legal fight, his work was still published - this hearing was solely about whether he required an export license to publish dual-use scientific research.
- lvl4x 7y ago"In most cases where several dogs live in the same animal care, only one dog has become ill. This may indicate that the possible disease is not so contagious from dog to dog. For the time being, the Norwegian Food Safety Authority's advice on restricting close contact between dogs remains valid." I'm looking forward to seeing what caused this. Really strange (In my non-expert mind) that it hasn't made its way to Sweden.
- pg_is_a_butt 7y agoObviously an old person sick of dogs. Probably mixed up pigeon shit into bacon grease and left it out.
- taneq 7y agoSounds like a genetically-determined allergy (like chocolate or I think onions)? Edit: Wow, HN really dislikes the suggestion that something could be genetic.
- partialrecall 7y agoI thought chocolate was toxic to all dogs.
- outworlder 7y agoIt is toxic to all dogs.
- pvaldes 7y agoTo be fair, chocolate is not what it was. Many cheap substitutes on the market
- bayesian_horse 7y agoStill toxic.
- elpakal 7y ago> Salmonella sp. and Campylobacter sp. has not been identified. Salmonella was my first thought. The CDC in the US just issued a warning to dog owners about pig ears: https://mb.ntd.com/fda-cdc-dont-buy-or-feed-your-dog-any-pig-ear-dog-treats_377245.html https://mb.ntd.com/fda-cdc-dont-buy-or-feed-your-dog-any-pig...
- dmix 7y agoConsidering it was a gastro intestinal thing this would have been the first thing they looked for...
- pvaldes 7y agoIs a good candidate. In this case some people should be falling ill also. I don't know if the same strands of Salmonella in dogs can affect people, but I assume that could happen. Update: In other source says that Salmonella has been ruled out.
- tigershark 7y agoAll those recommendations and they are not advising to let them eat the same food as the owner?
- beat 7y agoAs Robert Anton Wilson observed, we say dogs are our best friends, but we keep the best food for ourselves. Dogs know this, of course, and love us anyway.
- semi-extrinsic 7y agoWell, dogs are proper carnivores who can eat raw meat or fish stored at room temperature for days, without any problems. If they come across enough food, they will eat until they puke, sleep for an hour, then eat their own vomit. It's no controversial statement that dogs and humans have different preferences in food.
- scohesc 7y agoIf only we were as efficient as dogs when it comes to recycling.
- outworlder 7y ago> dogs are proper carnivores Cats are carnivores. Dogs are opportunistic carnivores. They prefer meat, but can survive on plant material. > Well, dogs are proper carnivores who can eat raw meat or fish stored at room temperature for days, without any problems. Yes, but only because they don't know better. Our digestive systems are better than dogs, although dogs are efficient at killing some pathogens(stomach PH is way lower). So they may fare better on not getting infected by stale food, but their systems will still have more problems trying to digest food full of toxins. There is an enormous list of things that dogs cannot process (or are toxic), but we can. A lot of it is due to our liver. Dog's livers are... dog shit.
- bibinou 7y ago> dozens Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/515533/dog-population-europe-norway/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/515533/dog-population-eu...) : > The dog population in Norway was measured at approximately 500 thousand in 2017
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tigershark 7y agoDozens are dead over hundreds infected, it doesn’t matter if the whole dog population is 1000 or 1B for the mortality rate.
- goda90 7y agoEvery epidemic starts with only a few infected. This may turn out to be a tragic blip for those dogs and their owners, or may become something huge.
- benj111 7y agoThe UK population is ~60 million (aprox 100 times norways dog population). If 1000s of people were being affected by something, that would be newsworthy.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dmix 7y agoSeems light on details of the incidents and timelines. Is there a better source that explains how this all started?
- kristofferR 7y agoNobody knows what it is or where it's come from. Most of the sources are Norwegian, but it's spread all over Norway. This is a timeline of the news since Sept 5 (click "Vis flere"): https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/mystisk-hundesykdom-1.14689833 https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/mystisk-hundesykdom-1.14689833 Here are more sources: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/0nkmk6/bianca-7-fikk-symptomer-paa-alvorlig-hundesykdom-doede-i-loepet-av-24-timer https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/0nkmk6/bianca-7-fikk-s... https://www.nrk.no/ostlandssendingen/atte-nye-tilfeller-av-syke-hunder-1.14701114 https://www.nrk.no/ostlandssendingen/atte-nye-tilfeller-av-s... https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/dOPwpo/Dette-er-de-12-forste-hundene-som-er-obdusert-etter-hundesykdommen https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/dOPwpo/Dette-er-de-12-for... https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/kJX3ov/Vet-ikke-om-vi-vil-fa-svar-pa-hva-hundene-er-blitt-syke-av https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/kJX3ov/Vet-ikke-om-vi-vil... https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/K31n1y/spania-advarer-etter-hundedoedsfall-ikke-reis-til-norge https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/K31n1y/spania-advarer-... https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/P9moz7/skrev-oppgave-om-hundesykdom-bakterien-alle-utbruddene-har-skjedd-om-hoesten https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/P9moz7/skrev-oppgave-o...
- dmix 7y agoThanks, this is what I was looking for. There wasn’t even an incident count in the alert so I was curious.
- laxd 7y agoAs a dog owner in norway following this, my bet is on an extra bad seasonal outbreak + breaking the threshold of runaway media. Recent news article said there is a spike of dogs dying with these symptoms every spring and autumn. Even now, the majority of affected dogs just end up more or less sick for a couple of days. Not dead. I even suspect my own dog had it. It was bad enough that we would have called the vet if it was'nt the worst time of day and week for getting hold of one. (He's fine, tending his stick collection.) A "dog hotel" owner interviewed on tv said about half of the 17 dogs she took care of got sick, only two got it badly, none died.
- t34543 7y agoThe media is out of control - sensationalist fear mongering.
- lifeisstillgood 7y agosensationalist fear mongrel-ing?
- PopeDotNinja 7y agoSensationalist fear hounding sure. I'm dog tired of it. Standard "this is not Reddit" comments to follow.
- dog_outbreak 7y agoextra bad seasonal outbreak An "outbreak" of what, precisely? The common dog cold? Dog flu? What kind of seasonal outbreak affects dogs?
- theRunz 7y agoBased on links provided by other commenters, severe or fatal diarrhea, with vomiting. A canine bacterial dysentery provoked by a hostile strain of gut flora that harms dogs, previously detected in South Africa. The bacteria's species does not have a wikipedia page yet, but here is the genus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Providencia_(bacterium) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Providencia_(bacterium) Meanwhile, a Google search for "Seasonal Canine Illness" produced mixed results, none of which says much about digestive problems, upset stomach or incontinence within the veterinary context. https://google.com/search?q=seasonal+canine+illness https://google.com/search?q=seasonal+canine+illness
- mmusson 7y agoIsn’t a mystery disease wiping out dogs (and cats) the cause for the original Planet of the Apes?
- NikkiA 7y agoIt's the impetus for the domestication of apes, who later go on to rise against us, but I'm not sure I'd elevate it to being the cause of the uprising.
- ch33333ch 7y agoCould it be dog feed/treats from China?
- jjtheblunt 7y ago[ For context, this has happened in the United States around 2008 or 2009, with a manufacturer in China putting melamine into food to test higher for detected protein content, falsely. I think the manufacturer was severely prosecuted by China. ]
- outworlder 7y ago> I think the manufacturer was severely prosecuted by China I would like to think that. I would not hold my breath.
- jjtheblunt 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls
- tomtompl 7y agoHow likely is it that those dogs are just being poisoned by someone?
- jpindar 7y agoIs it only affecting dogs that are walked out in public, as opposed to those that stay in kennels or on their owner's property?
- FlowNote 7y agoThis site perpetually amazes me. There has to be a psychological effect for when a group of intelligent people discover a problem, and then intentionally propose overtly complex causes of death before they start ruling out basic points. Even if this site knew that Islamic immigrants absolutely -HATE- dogs and thinks them evil, you would spend all your time ruling out the remote possibile cause of exotic bacteria in the atmosphere suddenly falling on Norway. Correlate acid attacks to dog deaths. Be horrified. I'm going to call this psychological effect "HackerNews bias".
- pvaldes 7y agoMaybe food. Dogs eat fish normally in norway? > serious bowel disease, with bloody content in the small intestines. Non transmisible from dog to dog... Sounds like food poisoning, yup. Or water. I assume that radiation can cause those symptoms of tissue bleeding if ingested via food or drink. Clostridum happened suspiciously as cause of massive death of 10.000 Saiga just weeks after forests of Chernobyl burned. Smells like scorched atoms. What do we know about the recent Russian atomic accident?
- NikkiA 7y ago> What do we know about the recent Russian atomic accident? That it was notable, but tiny, less than 100x background radiation within close proximity to the release.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pvaldes 7y agoHave they looked for Tritium release? It seems that is not picked by common geiger counters (I could be wrong about that point) Update: Nah, a Virus explains much better some animals falling ill and other in the same place not (affected by the disease before and having developped immunity).
- chuckledog 7y agoThis does sound awfully similar to the plot of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(1982_film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(1982_film) —- ancient/alien parasitic organism buried in thawing Norwegian permafrost affecting a sled dog ... also reminded me of the recent warnings of bacteria in permafrost e.g. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-540-74335-4_6 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-540-74335-4_... ... of course this is an idle association and apologies to all the real dog owners whose dogs are ill from this very real disease.
- kh_hk 7y agoJust to add up to the list of links to follow up, these are from the Norwegian Veterinary Institute, where they keep posting updates: - (one) https://www.vetinst.no/en/news/severe-illness-in-dogs-in-norway https://www.vetinst.no/en/news/severe-illness-in-dogs-in-nor... - (update 11 sept) https://www.vetinst.no/en/news/severe-illness-in-dogs-in-norway-update-11-september https://www.vetinst.no/en/news/severe-illness-in-dogs-in-nor...
- freebasenic 7y agoit was probably from vaping
- jmartinpetersen 7y agoThe Danish Veterinary and Food Administration are quoted on speculating that it may be parvovirus, as it seems to fit the symptoms. I have seen no further reporting or repudiation on that possibility, though. Or ... maybe it's lupus?
- pvaldes 7y agoFits well but enteric canine parvovirosis is highly contagious and can be transmissible also to cats. If only non vaccinated dogs are falling ill, could explain it. For you dog owners living there: Is parvo vaccine optative in Norway? ... and if is parvo, why is not being caught quickly when there are specific diagnostic tests for it?
- bayesian_horse 7y agoA lot can fit those symptoms, and dogs with some other infection may be affected worse by parvovirus. The Norwegians probably know more about the details. There are vaccines against Parvo, so it's hard to tell if denial of vaccinations is so bad in Norway, that there is an outbreak with hundreds of dogs...
- crimsonalucard 7y agoI bet it's the dog food.
- Havoc 7y agoI really like the tone of their regulator. Straight up we don't actually know but here is our best known info. As regulator the temptation is always there to say it's all fine. So saying we don't know is extra hard.
- ivanhoe 7y agoIt would be really much more useful if they've bothered to mentioned what are the early symptoms?! If a dog has bloody diarrhea of course you'll take it to the vet...
- shanth 7y agoI know the movie : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7aum_Arivu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7aum_Arivu