4 ms·

So if a Taiwanese dislikes the Chinese (government policy) or does not trust software "Made in China" she or he is racist?

mytailorisrich 7y ago
Chinese or Chinese government policy? That's not the same. Also there is no need to try to come up with contrived examples or straw man arguments. Claiming that "it's not against the Chinese but against their government" is also sometimes a convenient and not completely honest way to deflect claims of racism. The same happens with Israel and it can be quite insiduous. When people have to notice and discuss the Chinese origin of everything, all the time, "but just because of the Chinese government's policies" in my view they complain too much... And when it's not the government, it's pollution, or IP theft, or because they eat dogs (in some part of the country), or whatnot.
- Angostura 7y ago
  If the people of Hong Kong don't want to be extradicted to China is that racist? > a convenient but not completely honest way to deflect claims of racism And sometimes claims of racism can be a convenient but not quite honest way to deflect criticism of policy.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    > If the people of Hong Kong don't want to be extradicted to China is that racist? Could we avoid straw man arguments? There is an element of racism on issues related to China. There is no point denying it. There is certainly less of it (or at least it is much less obvious) than during the anti-China campaign in the West/US during the 50s and 60s but it is still there. As I wrote, some people just complain too much... It's quite obvious in this thread.
    - Angostura 7y ago
      > Could we avoid straw man arguments? We can - but that wasn't a straw-man argument. > There is an element of racism on issues regarding China. I agree. There is also an element of "that's racist" being used to deflect criticism.
    - Grangar 7y ago
      I'm fairly sure the racism argument was the first strawman in this thread. Chinese software has some real trust issues, given the political climate in that country. Open source does not automatically mean it's safe.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        You've ignored what I wrote in my comments and just replied beside the point by repeating the usual FUD instead. A comment with similar contents as yours but "pro-China" would immediately be labelled as coming from a 'bot' or someone paid by the Chinese government. I find this fascinating. The current climate regarding China is fantastic book material for Noam Chomsky.
    - rmilejczz 7y ago
      Could we avoid misusing the term straw man argument? That seemed like a good faith hypothetical question that could help further illuminate your own position, not some false posturing of your ideas.
- xurias 7y ago
  It must be nice to live in a world where geopolitical issues don't exist. The threat of the Chinese government is very real, and their influence and power over every Chinese citizen and company makes any Chinese actor suspect, yes. It has nothing to do with disliking Chinese, and everything to do with the CCP using its power to influence and control everything in their reach. Edit: I'd like to add. There are so many conflicts and animosities and distrust that have zero to do with racism. Our troubles with Russia are entirely ideological, for example. And especially in geopolitics, the issues that cause conflict usually revolve around pragmatic things like resources, economic/military power, spheres of influence, etc.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

Chinese or Chinese government policy? That's not the same. Also there is no need to try to come up with contrived examples or straw man arguments. Claiming that "it's not against the Chinese but against their government" is also sometimes a convenient and not completely honest way to deflect claims of racism. The same happens with Israel and it can be quite insiduous. When people have to notice and discuss the Chinese origin of everything, all the time, "but just because of the Chinese government's policies" in my view they complain too much... And when it's not the government, it's pollution, or IP theft, or because they eat dogs (in some part of the country), or whatnot.

Angostura 7y ago
If the people of Hong Kong don't want to be extradicted to China is that racist? > a convenient but not completely honest way to deflect claims of racism And sometimes claims of racism can be a convenient but not quite honest way to deflect criticism of policy.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  > If the people of Hong Kong don't want to be extradicted to China is that racist? Could we avoid straw man arguments? There is an element of racism on issues related to China. There is no point denying it. There is certainly less of it (or at least it is much less obvious) than during the anti-China campaign in the West/US during the 50s and 60s but it is still there. As I wrote, some people just complain too much... It's quite obvious in this thread.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    > Could we avoid straw man arguments? We can - but that wasn't a straw-man argument. > There is an element of racism on issues regarding China. I agree. There is also an element of "that's racist" being used to deflect criticism.
  - Grangar 7y ago
    I'm fairly sure the racism argument was the first strawman in this thread. Chinese software has some real trust issues, given the political climate in that country. Open source does not automatically mean it's safe.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      You've ignored what I wrote in my comments and just replied beside the point by repeating the usual FUD instead. A comment with similar contents as yours but "pro-China" would immediately be labelled as coming from a 'bot' or someone paid by the Chinese government. I find this fascinating. The current climate regarding China is fantastic book material for Noam Chomsky.
  - rmilejczz 7y ago
    Could we avoid misusing the term straw man argument? That seemed like a good faith hypothetical question that could help further illuminate your own position, not some false posturing of your ideas.
xurias 7y ago
It must be nice to live in a world where geopolitical issues don't exist. The threat of the Chinese government is very real, and their influence and power over every Chinese citizen and company makes any Chinese actor suspect, yes. It has nothing to do with disliking Chinese, and everything to do with the CCP using its power to influence and control everything in their reach. Edit: I'd like to add. There are so many conflicts and animosities and distrust that have zero to do with racism. Our troubles with Russia are entirely ideological, for example. And especially in geopolitics, the issues that cause conflict usually revolve around pragmatic things like resources, economic/military power, spheres of influence, etc.