5 ms·

Deepin has been around for a while now, and the questions about its origins have been around since the beginning. I'd say those questions have as much legitima

by ColanR 7y ago

Deepin has been around for a while now, and the questions about its origins have been around since the beginning. I'd say those questions have as much legitimacy as the similar questions surrounding Huawei. You really don't need to start throwing accusations like 'racism' around, just because you're ignorant of the context involved.

Smithalicious 7y ago
I'll again quote the point that is being made: >As for Deepin, its Chinese origins tend to ignite controversy (and anxiety within privacy purists) in the Linux world This is, at the very least, pure FUD. The implication is that Deepin is untrustworthy because of its Chinese origins. If that's true, then the implication is that everything of Chinese origin is untrustworthy. Deepin has indeed been around for a while. It is, as far as I can see, fully open source. Is there any indication that it's doing anything shady? Would a shady distribution last for 15 years in the privacy-conscious, code-scrutinizing Linux world? Even if there are genuine indications that Deepin is shady, I wish the article had just mentioned those, rather than vaguely gesturing at its Chinese origins as if it's obvious to anyone that anything Chinese is suspicious. That's what I think is racist.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  I've no problem consuming Chinese consumables, but software is another issue. If some software from the US or EU was up to no good, I can use the law to bring them to court. In China, I'd first need to ask myself, if not maybe the lawmakers themselves requested the software to do no good. EDIT: The same could also be said for US/EU governments, yes, but it is more subtle here (i.e. they label you a criminal/terrorist to legitimate installing e.g. a trojan on your PC, whereas, if I'm not mistaken, in China they could just make it a law to have trojans installed on every PC), so I still feel like the law somewhat protects my rights.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    You seem obsessed with laws, as if they possess value and worth in and of themselves, when really they are a very high latency side channel of society and power.[a] > I can use the law to bring them to court. I wouldn't be so certain of that. There are two issues with this: 1. The no good would have to be illegal either in the civil sense for you to take them to court, or illegal in the criminal or regulatory sense for government to act. Obviously not all no good is codified in law. 2. Law is necessarily high latency - it requires the no good to have already taken place in order for action to be taken against the doers of no good > i.e. they label you a criminal/terrorist to legitimate installing e.g. a trojan on your PC This has its own issues: 1. the terrorist label will be applied unilaterally: no one is going to come and ask you if you're a terrorist before you get closer scrutiny. 2. It would be a mistake to think some form of constitution is going to help, in the long run. Laws can be changed. Even the US Constitution has amendments. We're all only ever a few unhinged politicians away from no good governance. a. This quote was taken from @revelation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481
    - klingonopera 7y ago
      Yes, quite true that me as an average individual basically stands no chance against the law in neither the US or EU, but big companies, powerful individuals, NGOs, the media or even a favorable judge can sway. Also, consider how much harder it is to change the constitution here compared to China. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that power is more balanced in the Western world compared to China, and I consider that a good thing. ...but it does have its faults too, e.g. I find it appalling how slow politics, the economy and citizens react to the impending climate disaster. And yet, I'd still pick this world in which we'd have to fight each other over water and oxygen to a world run by totalitarian governments. And I hope I am exaggerating...
      - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
        > but big companies, powerful individuals, NGOs, the media or even a favorable judge can sway I'm going to agree with your wider point that power does appear to be more balanced in the West than China, at least until such times as a few more unhinged politicians have their way, but I also want to point out that... The world over, big companies, powerful individuals, and the media, have much closer ties to government than you and I ever will.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Chinese consumables have an occasional problem of replacing content with toxic counterfeits.
- xurias 7y ago
  > then the implication is that everything of Chinese origin is untrustworthy. That's entirely the case. Just because you keep trying to spin it as racist doesn't make it so.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  > untrustworthy because of its Chinese origins ... everything of Chinese origin is untrustworthy Settle down there Satan. My Chinese made coat hangers aren't much of a risk This has nothing to do with anyone's Han-Chinese-ness, don't be ridiculous. It's entirely about Chinese-Communist-Party-ness, government influence. All governments are doing everything they can to spy on each other, that's a known quality. The CCP probably has a greater ability quantitatively due to China being a significant manufacturer of devices that could present risks. We're right to ask these questions and attempt to examine the chain-of-trust. There's no need to get hysterical about it.

by ColanR 7y ago

Smithalicious 7y ago

I'll again quote the point that is being made: >As for Deepin, its Chinese origins tend to ignite controversy (and anxiety within privacy purists) in the Linux world This is, at the very least, pure FUD. The implication is that Deepin is untrustworthy because of its Chinese origins. If that's true, then the implication is that everything of Chinese origin is untrustworthy. Deepin has indeed been around for a while. It is, as far as I can see, fully open source. Is there any indication that it's doing anything shady? Would a shady distribution last for 15 years in the privacy-conscious, code-scrutinizing Linux world? Even if there are genuine indications that Deepin is shady, I wish the article had just mentioned those, rather than vaguely gesturing at its Chinese origins as if it's obvious to anyone that anything Chinese is suspicious. That's what I think is racist.

klingonopera 7y ago
I've no problem consuming Chinese consumables, but software is another issue. If some software from the US or EU was up to no good, I can use the law to bring them to court. In China, I'd first need to ask myself, if not maybe the lawmakers themselves requested the software to do no good. EDIT: The same could also be said for US/EU governments, yes, but it is more subtle here (i.e. they label you a criminal/terrorist to legitimate installing e.g. a trojan on your PC, whereas, if I'm not mistaken, in China they could just make it a law to have trojans installed on every PC), so I still feel like the law somewhat protects my rights.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  You seem obsessed with laws, as if they possess value and worth in and of themselves, when really they are a very high latency side channel of society and power.[a] > I can use the law to bring them to court. I wouldn't be so certain of that. There are two issues with this: 1. The no good would have to be illegal either in the civil sense for you to take them to court, or illegal in the criminal or regulatory sense for government to act. Obviously not all no good is codified in law. 2. Law is necessarily high latency - it requires the no good to have already taken place in order for action to be taken against the doers of no good > i.e. they label you a criminal/terrorist to legitimate installing e.g. a trojan on your PC This has its own issues: 1. the terrorist label will be applied unilaterally: no one is going to come and ask you if you're a terrorist before you get closer scrutiny. 2. It would be a mistake to think some form of constitution is going to help, in the long run. Laws can be changed. Even the US Constitution has amendments. We're all only ever a few unhinged politicians away from no good governance. a. This quote was taken from @revelation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    Yes, quite true that me as an average individual basically stands no chance against the law in neither the US or EU, but big companies, powerful individuals, NGOs, the media or even a favorable judge can sway. Also, consider how much harder it is to change the constitution here compared to China. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that power is more balanced in the Western world compared to China, and I consider that a good thing. ...but it does have its faults too, e.g. I find it appalling how slow politics, the economy and citizens react to the impending climate disaster. And yet, I'd still pick this world in which we'd have to fight each other over water and oxygen to a world run by totalitarian governments. And I hope I am exaggerating...
    - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
      > but big companies, powerful individuals, NGOs, the media or even a favorable judge can sway I'm going to agree with your wider point that power does appear to be more balanced in the West than China, at least until such times as a few more unhinged politicians have their way, but I also want to point out that... The world over, big companies, powerful individuals, and the media, have much closer ties to government than you and I ever will.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Chinese consumables have an occasional problem of replacing content with toxic counterfeits.
xurias 7y ago
> then the implication is that everything of Chinese origin is untrustworthy. That's entirely the case. Just because you keep trying to spin it as racist doesn't make it so.
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
> untrustworthy because of its Chinese origins ... everything of Chinese origin is untrustworthy Settle down there Satan. My Chinese made coat hangers aren't much of a risk This has nothing to do with anyone's Han-Chinese-ness, don't be ridiculous. It's entirely about Chinese-Communist-Party-ness, government influence. All governments are doing everything they can to spy on each other, that's a known quality. The CCP probably has a greater ability quantitatively due to China being a significant manufacturer of devices that could present risks. We're right to ask these questions and attempt to examine the chain-of-trust. There's no need to get hysterical about it.