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> California would have had legal marijuana a decade sooner except for lobbing by the union, they're a major force for mandatory minimum sentences and tougher s

> California would have had legal marijuana a decade sooner except for lobbing by the union, they're a major force for mandatory minimum sentences and tougher sentencing in general. edit: Do you have any articles to recommend that would shed some lights on this matter ? Do you have some sources ? (I don't live in the US, but I find the idea that guards somehow lobby fascinating)

cstejerean 7y ago
So this isn’t directed at you in particular but I don’t understand this “do you have any sources?” for stuff that’s one search away. If it was some obscure hard to find information published in some journal I would understand it, but this in this case https://lmgtfy.com/?q=california+prison+guards+lobby https://lmgtfy.com/?q=california+prison+guards+lobby And yet I see this constantly on almost every thread. What is it with HN and asking for sources on everything?
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  I totally see your point. That's why I added "I am not from the US" to signal "I don't live there, I don't know the in and out of this and I need the help of someone closer to the subject to help me grok it faster". True, I could google for it but then I am on an hunt to discern the truths and the lies and to understand why someone lies or tells the truth to whom and how it is pertinent to the original request (and there's the bubble search, of course). The thing is, I don't know - in that case - if it's obscure or not. Plus, our comments aren't born in a vacuum. Parent likely has additional information or an outlook on the subject that I wouldn't find (or more likely find but likely dismiss because of a lack of context) in a 15 minutes google search. Then, on the other hand, you actually have snipers around here who are quick to derail conversations by not participating, not giving information or sharing outlook and just shooting "Sources ?" and then never coming back to the thread. You have to trust me on that one but I assure you I don't do that. Now, asking for sources is most of time a given when someone makes extraordinary claims meant to shut an argument (eg: "X is bad 98% of time don't talk about X" when everyone was considering X safe from the get-go). edit: I should have asked something like "Do you have an article to recommend that would shed some lights on this matter ?". The "Do you have sources ?" is a bit harsh and inquisitive, my bad. edit (2): On the other hand, I clicked your link, without looking at the URL, thinking "ah cool, this person is telling me that in this case a simple google search will yield pertinent results. But all I got was a "fuck you, use google".
- JoeNr76 7y ago
  Wait, what? Ideally, citing your sources should be done without being asked. And, when asked, people want to know which sources you have used, not the ones they can find for themselves. So even if you think it's common knowledge, we want to see the base of your thinking.
  - dominotw 7y ago
    > Ideally, citing your sources should be done without being asked. Do you have a source for why that would be ideal ?
    - JoeNr76 7y ago
      I do. Are you asking?
- theptip 7y ago
  Strongly disagree. One of the great and unusual things about the HN community is that opinions are usually based on evidence. Asking someone to provide the evidence they are basing their opinion on is a great way to cut through all the noise on a subject you don't know well.
- dnate 7y ago
  I have also noticed this trend, not just online, but also offline with friends. While it seemed annoying at first, I quickly came to love the fact that this happens. I feel like this might be a natural tendency starting to be developed in the wake of fake news, and opinion-generating bot armies on the rise. Better to ask for a source one time too many, than one time too little.
opo 7y ago
Here is some background on CA prison guard union: >...The CCPOA is deeply involved in a variety of political activities. Most spending is done through political action committees.[citation needed] Although its membership is relatively small, representing only about one tenth the membership of the California Teachers Association, CCPOA political activity routinely exceeds that of all other labor unions in California. The union spends heavily on influencing political campaigns, and on lobbying legislators and other government officials. CCPOA also hires public relations firms and political polling firms. ... >Lobbying efforts and campaign contributions by the CCPOA have helped secure passage of numerous legislative bills favorable to union members, including bills that increase prison terms, member pay, and enforce current drug laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_Officers_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_... >...ROUGHLY HALF OF the money raised to oppose a ballot measure to legalize recreational marijuana in California is coming from police and prison guard groups, ... https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18/ca-marijuana-measure/ https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18/ca-marijuana-measure/

cstejerean 7y ago

So this isn’t directed at you in particular but I don’t understand this “do you have any sources?” for stuff that’s one search away. If it was some obscure hard to find information published in some journal I would understand it, but this in this case https://lmgtfy.com/?q=california+prison+guards+lobby https://lmgtfy.com/?q=california+prison+guards+lobby And yet I see this constantly on almost every thread. What is it with HN and asking for sources on everything?

johnchristopher 7y ago
I totally see your point. That's why I added "I am not from the US" to signal "I don't live there, I don't know the in and out of this and I need the help of someone closer to the subject to help me grok it faster". True, I could google for it but then I am on an hunt to discern the truths and the lies and to understand why someone lies or tells the truth to whom and how it is pertinent to the original request (and there's the bubble search, of course). The thing is, I don't know - in that case - if it's obscure or not. Plus, our comments aren't born in a vacuum. Parent likely has additional information or an outlook on the subject that I wouldn't find (or more likely find but likely dismiss because of a lack of context) in a 15 minutes google search. Then, on the other hand, you actually have snipers around here who are quick to derail conversations by not participating, not giving information or sharing outlook and just shooting "Sources ?" and then never coming back to the thread. You have to trust me on that one but I assure you I don't do that. Now, asking for sources is most of time a given when someone makes extraordinary claims meant to shut an argument (eg: "X is bad 98% of time don't talk about X" when everyone was considering X safe from the get-go). edit: I should have asked something like "Do you have an article to recommend that would shed some lights on this matter ?". The "Do you have sources ?" is a bit harsh and inquisitive, my bad. edit (2): On the other hand, I clicked your link, without looking at the URL, thinking "ah cool, this person is telling me that in this case a simple google search will yield pertinent results. But all I got was a "fuck you, use google".
JoeNr76 7y ago
Wait, what? Ideally, citing your sources should be done without being asked. And, when asked, people want to know which sources you have used, not the ones they can find for themselves. So even if you think it's common knowledge, we want to see the base of your thinking.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Ideally, citing your sources should be done without being asked. Do you have a source for why that would be ideal ?
  - JoeNr76 7y ago
    I do. Are you asking?
theptip 7y ago
Strongly disagree. One of the great and unusual things about the HN community is that opinions are usually based on evidence. Asking someone to provide the evidence they are basing their opinion on is a great way to cut through all the noise on a subject you don't know well.
dnate 7y ago
I have also noticed this trend, not just online, but also offline with friends. While it seemed annoying at first, I quickly came to love the fact that this happens. I feel like this might be a natural tendency starting to be developed in the wake of fake news, and opinion-generating bot armies on the rise. Better to ask for a source one time too many, than one time too little.

opo 7y ago

Here is some background on CA prison guard union: >...The CCPOA is deeply involved in a variety of political activities. Most spending is done through political action committees.[citation needed] Although its membership is relatively small, representing only about one tenth the membership of the California Teachers Association, CCPOA political activity routinely exceeds that of all other labor unions in California. The union spends heavily on influencing political campaigns, and on lobbying legislators and other government officials. CCPOA also hires public relations firms and political polling firms. ... >Lobbying efforts and campaign contributions by the CCPOA have helped secure passage of numerous legislative bills favorable to union members, including bills that increase prison terms, member pay, and enforce current drug laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_Officers_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_... >...ROUGHLY HALF OF the money raised to oppose a ballot measure to legalize recreational marijuana in California is coming from police and prison guard groups, ... https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18/ca-marijuana-measure/ https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18/ca-marijuana-measure/