5 ms·

My college town's (~60k people) bus system was free for everyone to use, paid for by an extra charge on the water bill. The biggest benefit of course is not hav

by dgzl 7y ago

My college town's (~60k people) bus system was free for everyone to use, paid for by an extra charge on the water bill. The biggest benefit of course is not having to pay, but a close second was the time savings from not having to fiddle with money. The system ran a lot smoother because of this. I would say this extra tax is a good thing, and I'm not at all a fan of taxes.

xwolfi 7y ago
Why ? Taxes are great when they are fair, well spent, and seriously monitored, both for corruption abuse and undue/unbearable increase. Paying the bus or a tax is the same thing for you if it's well done, but then as you said: it's more convenient, when you're in trouble one month you'll still be able to use the transport, tourists benefit from it, and last but not least, crazy poor people can have a chance to move around freely...
- dgzl 7y ago
  > Taxes are great when they are fair, well spent, and seriously monitored Which rarely happens in my opinion.
- jstanley 7y ago
  > Why ? Because you don't get to decide whether you think it's worth it or not. If the bus is too expensive, you can walk, or cycle, or use a car, or just not go on the journey. If the tax is too expensive, you have no recourse, you have to pay it anyway. And "if the tax is too expensive then write to your local politician" is not an answer. Even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the bus is too expensive, I still have the option not to use the bus. But if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the tax is too expensive, too bad, I just have to pay it.
  - gwd 7y ago
    > Even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the bus is too expensive, I still have the option not to use the bus. But if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the tax is too expensive, too bad, I just have to pay it. And the reason is that you accrue benefits of a free bus system even if you never ride the bus. For instance, if you choose to drive, you'll have a lot less traffic and more parking available, and probably for a cheaper price, because the other people will be riding the bus. Better bus systems means more mobility for poorer workers, which means better quality employees in the shops you see downtown. By making it easier for poor people to get jobs, it makes it less likely for people to fall off the edge and become homeless, meaning fewer homeless people in your downtown area; which in turn means lower cost for police, health, and social services, which means lower crime / better service for you. Now, maybe you don't care about those benefits, or maybe you don't think your taxes will achieve all those benefits. But if most of the people in your city do think that, then it's fair for them to expect you to pay your share.
  - 2rsf 7y ago
    > Because you don't get to decide whether you think it's worth it or not. Welcome to Socialism as Bernie Sanders wrongly calls us Swedes. You pay for a "package" of benefits, you don't use all of them all of the time but on average everyone is happy.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    > If the bus is too expensive, you can walk, or cycle, or use a car, or just not go on the journey A citizen deciding not to take the bus makes the bus less efficient in some ways too.
  - jamesb93 7y ago
    Sometimes paying for services that you don't use has unseen benefits to parts of your life and the wider community. Consistently well funded services can develop institutional knowledge and allow greater dissemenation of the fruits of labour.
  - gwd 7y ago
    > Even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the bus is too expensive, I still have the option not to use the bus. But if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the tax is too expensive, too bad, I just have to pay it. Moreover, consider this: > If I'm the only person in the [city] who thinks wide streets and highways for cars are too expensive, too bad, I still have to pay it. Streets and traffic lights and parking spaces and traffic enforcement and all the infrastructure needed for cars aren't free; your car ride into the city is being subsidized. If it's not fair for you to subsidize bus-riders, why is it fair for bus-riders to subsidize you?
ewidar 7y ago
Compiegne?
zajio1am 7y ago
In city where i live, most people just buy yearly pass, so no need to fiddle with money even if it is not free.

by dgzl 7y ago

xwolfi 7y ago

Why ? Taxes are great when they are fair, well spent, and seriously monitored, both for corruption abuse and undue/unbearable increase. Paying the bus or a tax is the same thing for you if it's well done, but then as you said: it's more convenient, when you're in trouble one month you'll still be able to use the transport, tourists benefit from it, and last but not least, crazy poor people can have a chance to move around freely...

dgzl 7y ago
> Taxes are great when they are fair, well spent, and seriously monitored Which rarely happens in my opinion.
jstanley 7y ago
> Why ? Because you don't get to decide whether you think it's worth it or not. If the bus is too expensive, you can walk, or cycle, or use a car, or just not go on the journey. If the tax is too expensive, you have no recourse, you have to pay it anyway. And "if the tax is too expensive then write to your local politician" is not an answer. Even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the bus is too expensive, I still have the option not to use the bus. But if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the tax is too expensive, too bad, I just have to pay it.
- gwd 7y ago
  > Even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the bus is too expensive, I still have the option not to use the bus. But if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the tax is too expensive, too bad, I just have to pay it. And the reason is that you accrue benefits of a free bus system even if you never ride the bus. For instance, if you choose to drive, you'll have a lot less traffic and more parking available, and probably for a cheaper price, because the other people will be riding the bus. Better bus systems means more mobility for poorer workers, which means better quality employees in the shops you see downtown. By making it easier for poor people to get jobs, it makes it less likely for people to fall off the edge and become homeless, meaning fewer homeless people in your downtown area; which in turn means lower cost for police, health, and social services, which means lower crime / better service for you. Now, maybe you don't care about those benefits, or maybe you don't think your taxes will achieve all those benefits. But if most of the people in your city do think that, then it's fair for them to expect you to pay your share.
- 2rsf 7y ago
  > Because you don't get to decide whether you think it's worth it or not. Welcome to Socialism as Bernie Sanders wrongly calls us Swedes. You pay for a "package" of benefits, you don't use all of them all of the time but on average everyone is happy.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  > If the bus is too expensive, you can walk, or cycle, or use a car, or just not go on the journey A citizen deciding not to take the bus makes the bus less efficient in some ways too.
- jamesb93 7y ago
  Sometimes paying for services that you don't use has unseen benefits to parts of your life and the wider community. Consistently well funded services can develop institutional knowledge and allow greater dissemenation of the fruits of labour.
- gwd 7y ago
  > Even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the bus is too expensive, I still have the option not to use the bus. But if I'm the only person in the world who thinks the tax is too expensive, too bad, I just have to pay it. Moreover, consider this: > If I'm the only person in the [city] who thinks wide streets and highways for cars are too expensive, too bad, I still have to pay it. Streets and traffic lights and parking spaces and traffic enforcement and all the infrastructure needed for cars aren't free; your car ride into the city is being subsidized. If it's not fair for you to subsidize bus-riders, why is it fair for bus-riders to subsidize you?

ewidar 7y ago

Compiegne?

zajio1am 7y ago

In city where i live, most people just buy yearly pass, so no need to fiddle with money even if it is not free.