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Software occupies an interesting boundary between engineering and mathematics. Software patents for trivial things typically do not exist, it is just a misreadi

Software occupies an interesting boundary between engineering and mathematics. Software patents for trivial things typically do not exist, it is just a misreading of the patent--they start very generally and end up in specifics. As long as you change some of the particulars, you are allowed to file for a new patent. Just because innovation happened without software patents does not mean that higher quality innovations can not exist with patents. I know of algorithms which give certain companies an edge in their flagship international products. If these algorithms were able to be patented globally, it would be a large benefit to the entire industry. Since China is part of this market, the company does not patent this algorithm and instead keeps it as a trade secret. I think in this case it would be better if the algorithm was patented. We need to distinguish this case where the patent is truly non-trivial and would not be able to be re-created without great expense. It's very difficult to evaluate this, especially for those who aren't experienced. Honestly, I don't think "end of all software patents" is the solution here. Imagine if NNs were developed completely as a trade secret.

rayiner 7y ago
Imagine if the secret sauce that makes Apple’s trackpads the best had been patented and disclosed. It’d be out of patent soon and we could have Windows laptops with decent trackpads.
- solinent 7y ago
  Exactly, the whole point of patents is to avoid trade secrets. Trade secrets create much worse monopolies than the existing patent system could ever create, since their length is indeterminate. It's also hard to evaluate the ethics of a product directly without knowing its machinery.
  - thayne 7y ago
    > since their length is indeterminate in the software world 20 years is almost as bad. by the time the patent expires the patented algorithm may no longer be relevant
- comex 7y ago
  As it is, at least Windows laptops can try to replicate that secret sauce. Or just reverse engineer it: we're talking about software patents, and pretty much all of Apple's software is available unencrypted in binary form and can thus be reverse engineered by those with the right skills. The idea that Apple would have a goverment-enforced monopoly on good trackpads for 20 years sounds like a far, far worse outcome to me. If it were 5 years or less, maybe...
  - jacques_chester 7y ago
    IIRC Bezos argued that software patents should have 9 years protection, which seems like a good compromise to me.
thayne 7y ago
> If these algorithms were able to be patented globally, it would be a large benefit to the entire industry. How so? The company is under no obligation to allow others to use the algorithm, and now it can sue anyone who uses it, even if they arrived at a similar solution independently. And by the time the patent expires, there may be a better solution, or the problem the algorithm solves might not even be relevant anymore.

rayiner 7y ago

Imagine if the secret sauce that makes Apple’s trackpads the best had been patented and disclosed. It’d be out of patent soon and we could have Windows laptops with decent trackpads.

solinent 7y ago
Exactly, the whole point of patents is to avoid trade secrets. Trade secrets create much worse monopolies than the existing patent system could ever create, since their length is indeterminate. It's also hard to evaluate the ethics of a product directly without knowing its machinery.
- thayne 7y ago
  > since their length is indeterminate in the software world 20 years is almost as bad. by the time the patent expires the patented algorithm may no longer be relevant
comex 7y ago
As it is, at least Windows laptops can try to replicate that secret sauce. Or just reverse engineer it: we're talking about software patents, and pretty much all of Apple's software is available unencrypted in binary form and can thus be reverse engineered by those with the right skills. The idea that Apple would have a goverment-enforced monopoly on good trackpads for 20 years sounds like a far, far worse outcome to me. If it were 5 years or less, maybe...
- jacques_chester 7y ago
  IIRC Bezos argued that software patents should have 9 years protection, which seems like a good compromise to me.

thayne 7y ago

> If these algorithms were able to be patented globally, it would be a large benefit to the entire industry. How so? The company is under no obligation to allow others to use the algorithm, and now it can sue anyone who uses it, even if they arrived at a similar solution independently. And by the time the patent expires, there may be a better solution, or the problem the algorithm solves might not even be relevant anymore.