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Are you suggesting that concepts like Dasein's thrown-ness into the world, the readiness-to-hand of tools, and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to d

Are you suggesting that concepts like Dasein's thrown-ness into the world, the readiness-to-hand of tools, and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism, should now be subject to suspicion on account of their originator's political affiliations?

FillardMillmore 7y ago
I don't know if the OP suggested that Heidegger's philosophy should now be suspect, but rather claimed that his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties. If some great painting was found to have been created by a Nazi, would the merit of the art be suspect in the eyes of art historians and the public? I wouldn't think so, but of course it's a different medium entirely.
- madacoo 7y ago
  > his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties I think this probably is indeed the case. Although I would argue the value of an idea should be entirely detached from who had it, and be a function only of its usefulness, beauty and other significant attributes. Of course if a Nazi has an idea we might then argue it becomes less beautiful because of that.
  - FillardMillmore 7y ago
    I would concur in your take on the argument. I think it's important, to promote rational and productive discourse, to push back on those that would have us believe that ideas are in essence, "guilty by association", based on the reputation or history of those who formulate said ideas. Instead, the ideas, theories, philosophies, etc. should be confronted directly on their own merit or lack thereof. I don't think someone, in good faith, could claim that the ideas of liberty and freedom proposed by many of architects of the constitution of the United States are lessened simply because some of these people were slave owners. That's not to say that we can't look back now and agree that their practice of slavery was morally wrong, but to pillory their positive contributions to the world simply because of this seems quite nefarious.
    - throwawayjava 7y ago
      Comparing philosophers with constitution writers is a bit difficult. Philosophizing and nation building are quite different from one another. But, basically, the question we should ask: "is there a direct connection between Heidegger's philosophical prescriptions and his fascism?" If so, that suggests a pretty serious problem with his prescriptions -- that, in certain milieu -- his ideas comfortably co-exist with or perhaps even feed/justify a fascist mindset. IMO that line was always kind of obvious, but in any case, Heidegger drew it directly for us in his Black Notebooks. Especially in Heidegger's case -- because of the very broad nature of the prescriptions that follow from his work -- I think that's quite different from mere "guilt by association".
- sswaner 7y ago
  People still drive Volkswagens.
  - lawtalkinghuman 7y ago
    Volkswagens aren't metaphysical ideals with potentially negative ethical and political implications.
earthboundkid 7y ago
> and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism That's begging the question. We want to examine his writings to figure out a) how important is the biographical question to his work and b) how bad were the Nazis and why? Maybe thinking in terms of "Dasein" leads inevitably to death camps. Maybe not. But you can't just assume there's no connection (or that there is one). You have to argue it out.
- madacoo 7y ago
  I think the claim that Dasein has to do with Nazism would need to be demonstrated. I think for any idea it is reasonable to assume it doesn't have anything to do with Nazism until demonstrated otherwise. Dasein's throwness, so far as I can see, doesn't have anything to do with Nazism. Of course there is always the possibility for any idea that it leads to death camps. But it is rather hard to exhaustively explore the consequences of anything. It could well be, however, that having an affilation with Nazism increases the likelihood that your ideas lead to death camps. Although even that ought to be deomnstrated rather than assumed.
  - earthboundkid 7y ago
    For an idea in general, sure. But Heidegger literally joined the Nazi party and never repented publicly. So there is a burden of proof on the ideas he specifically created to show that his Nazism was unrelated and accidental to the idea.

FillardMillmore 7y ago

I don't know if the OP suggested that Heidegger's philosophy should now be suspect, but rather claimed that his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties. If some great painting was found to have been created by a Nazi, would the merit of the art be suspect in the eyes of art historians and the public? I wouldn't think so, but of course it's a different medium entirely.

madacoo 7y ago
> his philosophy in the eyes of academia and the public has garnered more scrutiny simply because of his ties I think this probably is indeed the case. Although I would argue the value of an idea should be entirely detached from who had it, and be a function only of its usefulness, beauty and other significant attributes. Of course if a Nazi has an idea we might then argue it becomes less beautiful because of that.
- FillardMillmore 7y ago
  I would concur in your take on the argument. I think it's important, to promote rational and productive discourse, to push back on those that would have us believe that ideas are in essence, "guilty by association", based on the reputation or history of those who formulate said ideas. Instead, the ideas, theories, philosophies, etc. should be confronted directly on their own merit or lack thereof. I don't think someone, in good faith, could claim that the ideas of liberty and freedom proposed by many of architects of the constitution of the United States are lessened simply because some of these people were slave owners. That's not to say that we can't look back now and agree that their practice of slavery was morally wrong, but to pillory their positive contributions to the world simply because of this seems quite nefarious.
  - throwawayjava 7y ago
    Comparing philosophers with constitution writers is a bit difficult. Philosophizing and nation building are quite different from one another. But, basically, the question we should ask: "is there a direct connection between Heidegger's philosophical prescriptions and his fascism?" If so, that suggests a pretty serious problem with his prescriptions -- that, in certain milieu -- his ideas comfortably co-exist with or perhaps even feed/justify a fascist mindset. IMO that line was always kind of obvious, but in any case, Heidegger drew it directly for us in his Black Notebooks. Especially in Heidegger's case -- because of the very broad nature of the prescriptions that follow from his work -- I think that's quite different from mere "guilt by association".
sswaner 7y ago
People still drive Volkswagens.
- lawtalkinghuman 7y ago
  Volkswagens aren't metaphysical ideals with potentially negative ethical and political implications.

earthboundkid 7y ago

> and other Heideggerian ideas, which have nothing to do with Nazism That's begging the question. We want to examine his writings to figure out a) how important is the biographical question to his work and b) how bad were the Nazis and why? Maybe thinking in terms of "Dasein" leads inevitably to death camps. Maybe not. But you can't just assume there's no connection (or that there is one). You have to argue it out.

madacoo 7y ago
I think the claim that Dasein has to do with Nazism would need to be demonstrated. I think for any idea it is reasonable to assume it doesn't have anything to do with Nazism until demonstrated otherwise. Dasein's throwness, so far as I can see, doesn't have anything to do with Nazism. Of course there is always the possibility for any idea that it leads to death camps. But it is rather hard to exhaustively explore the consequences of anything. It could well be, however, that having an affilation with Nazism increases the likelihood that your ideas lead to death camps. Although even that ought to be deomnstrated rather than assumed.
- earthboundkid 7y ago
  For an idea in general, sure. But Heidegger literally joined the Nazi party and never repented publicly. So there is a burden of proof on the ideas he specifically created to show that his Nazism was unrelated and accidental to the idea.