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In principle, nothing. In practice, current policy at the southern US border is directly responsible for acts which are unconscionably cruel and inhumane. Sepa

In principle, nothing. In practice, current policy at the southern US border is directly responsible for acts which are unconscionably cruel and inhumane. Separating children, babies and toddlers from their parents. Keeping children in bed-less, 24/7 lit rooms. Not giving sanitary pads to menstruating girls, etc. The list of atrocities is growing, depressing and unforgivable. Apprehended migrants are treated in ways that most humans would consider too cruel for dogs. It is because of these policies that enforcing border security is immoral. Because of these policies, any increase in enforcement has a direct, causal, traceable and immediate consequence of increasing human suffering. "Law and order vs chaos" is a false dichotomy. There can be peaceful lawlessness and cruel law and everything in between. Anduril, anyone working there, and anyone backing them, will now be directly responsible for an increase in human suffering. I will never pitch A16Z again.

CapricornNoble 7y ago
>>>Separating children, babies and toddlers from their parents. You mean the same thing we do with American citizens who commit crimes? [1] >>>> Keeping children in bed-less, 24/7 lit rooms. Not giving sanitary pads to menstruating girls, etc. The list of atrocities is growing, depressing and unforgivable. Apprehended migrants are treated in ways that most humans would consider too cruel for dogs. Additional funding would help, but the same politicians criticizing the conditions also ....voted against additional funding! [2] It's almost like they aren't interested in actually solving problems.... As an aside, the US isn't alone in first-world countries with harsh immigration prisons.[3][4] Pretty much every gaijin I know understands the importance of "staying on the level" with regards to the immigration authorities here because the prisons are terrifying. >>> Because of these policies, any increase in enforcement has a direct, causal, traceable and immediate consequence of increasing human suffering. Or you could put personal responsibility on the people who chose to leave their homes at great personal risk, exposing themselves to life-threatening dangers.[5] <---that couple both had steady employment in El Salvador. Do you consider their decision to leave their (meager) economic situation and expose their children to danger immoral? Have you seen interviews with some of the detained African aliens?[6] There are NGOs feeding these people propaganda about how the US will take care of them, provide for them, and give them money. If anything, those organizations and people are directly responsible for deceiving unfortunate populations and skewing their risk analysis in order to convince them to undertake an objectively-dangerous course of action. Are you going to directly hold them accountable for human suffering, as well? [1]https://youtu.be/ZEFoi_leYDw https://youtu.be/ZEFoi_leYDw [2]https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450363-the-4-house-democrats-who-voted-against-the-border-funding-bill https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450363-the-4-house-democr... [3]http://www.debito.org/?p=13056 http://www.debito.org/?p=13056 [4]https://www.economist.com/banyan/2012/01/18/gulag-for-gaijin https://www.economist.com/banyan/2012/01/18/gulag-for-gaijin [5]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/world/americas/rio-grande-drowning-father-daughter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/world/americas/rio-grande... [6]https://youtu.be/mJlOmMj21uM https://youtu.be/mJlOmMj21uM
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
By that logic, doesn't someone also support "unhumane practices" if they do any kind of work or subcontract to US government? If you group everything together, then anyone supporting US is "directly responsible for an increase in human suffering". Does that really look like sound logic to you?
- elbasti 7y ago
  Of course not. I don't think there's anything in my comment that would suggest that. My comment was explicitly about: inhumane acts done to apprehended migrants and building technology to apprehend more migrants. Those seem very connected.
  - Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
    Does the manufacturer of cars that they provide for the border patrol contribute to the "increase of suffering"? This technology is directly related to apprehending more migrants, in fact those cars are used on the ground to do that exact thing. Some of those cars are used to separate children from families by driving them away. To clarify, my point is if you see such technology as directly related, then cars would also be directly related?
    - elbasti 7y ago
      Yes. Selling cars to the border patrol is, in this formulation, unethical.

CapricornNoble 7y ago

>>>Separating children, babies and toddlers from their parents. You mean the same thing we do with American citizens who commit crimes? [1] >>>> Keeping children in bed-less, 24/7 lit rooms. Not giving sanitary pads to menstruating girls, etc. The list of atrocities is growing, depressing and unforgivable. Apprehended migrants are treated in ways that most humans would consider too cruel for dogs. Additional funding would help, but the same politicians criticizing the conditions also ....voted against additional funding! [2] It's almost like they aren't interested in actually solving problems.... As an aside, the US isn't alone in first-world countries with harsh immigration prisons.[3][4] Pretty much every gaijin I know understands the importance of "staying on the level" with regards to the immigration authorities here because the prisons are terrifying. >>> Because of these policies, any increase in enforcement has a direct, causal, traceable and immediate consequence of increasing human suffering. Or you could put personal responsibility on the people who chose to leave their homes at great personal risk, exposing themselves to life-threatening dangers.[5] <---that couple both had steady employment in El Salvador. Do you consider their decision to leave their (meager) economic situation and expose their children to danger immoral? Have you seen interviews with some of the detained African aliens?[6] There are NGOs feeding these people propaganda about how the US will take care of them, provide for them, and give them money. If anything, those organizations and people are directly responsible for deceiving unfortunate populations and skewing their risk analysis in order to convince them to undertake an objectively-dangerous course of action. Are you going to directly hold them accountable for human suffering, as well? [1]https://youtu.be/ZEFoi_leYDw https://youtu.be/ZEFoi_leYDw [2]https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450363-the-4-house-democrats-who-voted-against-the-border-funding-bill https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450363-the-4-house-democr... [3]http://www.debito.org/?p=13056 http://www.debito.org/?p=13056 [4]https://www.economist.com/banyan/2012/01/18/gulag-for-gaijin https://www.economist.com/banyan/2012/01/18/gulag-for-gaijin [5]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/world/americas/rio-grande-drowning-father-daughter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/world/americas/rio-grande... [6]https://youtu.be/mJlOmMj21uM https://youtu.be/mJlOmMj21uM

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

By that logic, doesn't someone also support "unhumane practices" if they do any kind of work or subcontract to US government? If you group everything together, then anyone supporting US is "directly responsible for an increase in human suffering". Does that really look like sound logic to you?

elbasti 7y ago
Of course not. I don't think there's anything in my comment that would suggest that. My comment was explicitly about: inhumane acts done to apprehended migrants and building technology to apprehend more migrants. Those seem very connected.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  Does the manufacturer of cars that they provide for the border patrol contribute to the "increase of suffering"? This technology is directly related to apprehending more migrants, in fact those cars are used on the ground to do that exact thing. Some of those cars are used to separate children from families by driving them away. To clarify, my point is if you see such technology as directly related, then cars would also be directly related?
  - elbasti 7y ago
    Yes. Selling cars to the border patrol is, in this formulation, unethical.