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Please understand that I am saying this in a compassionate, not a judgmental way. I think the key developmental step is to be able to get over yourself. I think

Please understand that I am saying this in a compassionate, not a judgmental way. I think the key developmental step is to be able to get over yourself. I think this is a fundamental part in becoming a mature person. Many of us are forced through this step against our will and maybe without realizing it. Either through our job, or significant other, or kids, or some other experience that just overwhelms you. Apparently you are a tougher nut to crack than most people. It's not easy because it's like part of you has to die and it doesn't go quietly. But on the other side, where it becomes easy to start thinking about others first, everything starts to fall into place. We were made to be like this. A human child tends to be self-focused. A human adult must be much more selfless. And I don't think we can really be happy until we achieve this state. When you can find joy in satisfying others, you have access to a bottomless well of happiness. (Then it turns out satisfying others is pretty hard even when you are really trying) It's funny because this is something religion usually stresses as well, so if you've avoided that you really might be missing out.

Miner49er 7y ago
> But on the other side, where it becomes easy to start thinking about others first, everything starts to fall into place. We were made to be like this. A human child tends to be self-focused. A human adult must be much more selfless. And I don't think we can really be happy until we achieve this state. When you can find joy in satisfying others, you have access to a bottomless well of happiness. (Then it turns out satisfying others is pretty hard even when you are really trying) I think you're right, but what does work have to do with any of that? Maybe some jobs are about helping people, but most aren't really. If anything a job makes it harder for most people to be selfless because they don't have the time.
- badpun 7y ago
  The people you are helping is your family (via your income from the job).
  - anon9001 7y ago
    My plan is to not have any family because of this employment problem. It'd be neat to have kids I guess, but however good it is cannot possibly be worth an extra 20 years of employment.
anon9001 7y ago
Thank you. You shouldn't be downvoted for saying this. I feel like you're saying what everyone else around me is thinking, but nobody has ever actually said. I don't even know why you'd have to preface it by saying you mean to be compassionate. If your belief is the common one, why isn't that something people talk about? Is it that taboo? Shouldn't this death of self be celebrated if it's how were made to be? Also, I think it's not a coincidence that my views on this definitely have not changed since I was a kid that hated school. I also rejected religion as a kid, and have continued to do so as an adult. Seems like you've got me figured out so far. > It's not easy because it's like part of you has to die and it doesn't go quietly. That is exactly what it feels like. > But on the other side, where it becomes easy to start thinking about others first, everything starts to fall into place. This is where you lost me. From my perspective, I would be a better person without the work obligation. I don't really know what I'd do without the obligation to work, but it would probably be more philanthropic than whatever my employer has me doing. Maybe I'd work on free software or anti-censorship? Or maybe I'd find joy in helping the disadvantaged in my local community? Or maybe I'd find virtue in starting a family? I have no idea, but I won't find out unless I luck into a few million bucks, because I can barely function while I'm employed. I can assure you I'd be a greater asset to society if I was unemployed than building commercial software. > And I don't think we can really be happy until we achieve this state. When you can find joy in satisfying others, you have access to a bottomless well of happiness. I don't understand. Are you saying that I should accept some greater wisdom that giving my employer my best waking hours is helping the company, and that is somehow greater than helping myself? If that were the path to fulfillment in life, I should be taking a pay cut and working longer hours, which is quite the opposite of what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to hoard as much as possible because I know society won't support me later if I become unable to support myself. Which incidentally, is also what I believe my employer is doing for himself. I suspect society only works because your view is widespread, but I still can't understand it.
- vcxy 7y ago
  I honestly feel the same way as you, but inexplicably without the suicidal ideation. I'm not happy, per se, but I feel I've hit a spot different from either yours or who you're replying to. I agree with everything you've said, but my emotional self just goes on for whatever reason. I wish I had some actual advice or something, but all I can really say is, I'm an example that shows, at least in some people, "situation" and "how the situation changes my emotional state" are partially orthogonal.
throwaway31338 7y ago
Your "get over yourself" and "mature person" bits fill me with frustration and anger. I'm sorry for that, but it's there. Being selfless is great. Hating the grind of a 40 hour / week job, versus "accepting" it has nothing to do with selflessness.
- aristophenes 7y ago
  I didn't say being more selfless meant becoming a slave to your employer. I clarified in another post that becoming more selfless can actually help you to leave a toxic environment too. Or maybe you might realize that you were part of the reason it was so toxic, and you take that with you wherever you go. In that case running doesn't help. I don't know what OPs situation is or what yours is. Once you let go of yourself a bit, and readjust your mindset and priorities accordingly, based on whoever you are and whatever situation you are in, then it will likely become more clear what you should do. And it will be easier, and even enjoyable, to do what you should do. I don't think we were designed to be miserable, so if we are stuck in misery isn't it logical to think we might be pursuing joy in the wrong things?

Miner49er 7y ago

> But on the other side, where it becomes easy to start thinking about others first, everything starts to fall into place. We were made to be like this. A human child tends to be self-focused. A human adult must be much more selfless. And I don't think we can really be happy until we achieve this state. When you can find joy in satisfying others, you have access to a bottomless well of happiness. (Then it turns out satisfying others is pretty hard even when you are really trying) I think you're right, but what does work have to do with any of that? Maybe some jobs are about helping people, but most aren't really. If anything a job makes it harder for most people to be selfless because they don't have the time.

badpun 7y ago
The people you are helping is your family (via your income from the job).
- anon9001 7y ago
  My plan is to not have any family because of this employment problem. It'd be neat to have kids I guess, but however good it is cannot possibly be worth an extra 20 years of employment.

anon9001 7y ago

Thank you. You shouldn't be downvoted for saying this. I feel like you're saying what everyone else around me is thinking, but nobody has ever actually said. I don't even know why you'd have to preface it by saying you mean to be compassionate. If your belief is the common one, why isn't that something people talk about? Is it that taboo? Shouldn't this death of self be celebrated if it's how were made to be? Also, I think it's not a coincidence that my views on this definitely have not changed since I was a kid that hated school. I also rejected religion as a kid, and have continued to do so as an adult. Seems like you've got me figured out so far. > It's not easy because it's like part of you has to die and it doesn't go quietly. That is exactly what it feels like. > But on the other side, where it becomes easy to start thinking about others first, everything starts to fall into place. This is where you lost me. From my perspective, I would be a better person without the work obligation. I don't really know what I'd do without the obligation to work, but it would probably be more philanthropic than whatever my employer has me doing. Maybe I'd work on free software or anti-censorship? Or maybe I'd find joy in helping the disadvantaged in my local community? Or maybe I'd find virtue in starting a family? I have no idea, but I won't find out unless I luck into a few million bucks, because I can barely function while I'm employed. I can assure you I'd be a greater asset to society if I was unemployed than building commercial software. > And I don't think we can really be happy until we achieve this state. When you can find joy in satisfying others, you have access to a bottomless well of happiness. I don't understand. Are you saying that I should accept some greater wisdom that giving my employer my best waking hours is helping the company, and that is somehow greater than helping myself? If that were the path to fulfillment in life, I should be taking a pay cut and working longer hours, which is quite the opposite of what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to hoard as much as possible because I know society won't support me later if I become unable to support myself. Which incidentally, is also what I believe my employer is doing for himself. I suspect society only works because your view is widespread, but I still can't understand it.

vcxy 7y ago
I honestly feel the same way as you, but inexplicably without the suicidal ideation. I'm not happy, per se, but I feel I've hit a spot different from either yours or who you're replying to. I agree with everything you've said, but my emotional self just goes on for whatever reason. I wish I had some actual advice or something, but all I can really say is, I'm an example that shows, at least in some people, "situation" and "how the situation changes my emotional state" are partially orthogonal.

throwaway31338 7y ago

Your "get over yourself" and "mature person" bits fill me with frustration and anger. I'm sorry for that, but it's there. Being selfless is great. Hating the grind of a 40 hour / week job, versus "accepting" it has nothing to do with selflessness.

aristophenes 7y ago
I didn't say being more selfless meant becoming a slave to your employer. I clarified in another post that becoming more selfless can actually help you to leave a toxic environment too. Or maybe you might realize that you were part of the reason it was so toxic, and you take that with you wherever you go. In that case running doesn't help. I don't know what OPs situation is or what yours is. Once you let go of yourself a bit, and readjust your mindset and priorities accordingly, based on whoever you are and whatever situation you are in, then it will likely become more clear what you should do. And it will be easier, and even enjoyable, to do what you should do. I don't think we were designed to be miserable, so if we are stuck in misery isn't it logical to think we might be pursuing joy in the wrong things?