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The idea that a special interest that is financially powerful and interested in high prison population, may inject wrong incentives into the society is real and

The idea that a special interest that is financially powerful and interested in high prison population, may inject wrong incentives into the society is real and understandable. But we also have other side of the equation - politicians willing to expand definition of "crime" to placate people's fears and emotions combined with prosecutors willing to throw the book to make and example and build a career on it, all while not appropriately funding the prisons. California's real problem is MASSIVE prison population, where you have to BECOME a RACIST to survive the prison gangs. Prison overcrowd is a feature of CA prison system. I wish they ordered their priorities right and built enough prisons to house the population safely. This is one single step in a series of steps to get anywhere positive. Knowing their Governor and his political expedient past, I am skeptical.

pavel_lishin 7y ago
Wouldn't the better solution to these priorities be shrinking down those definitions of crime, and not filling up the prisons we've got, rather than building bigger ones?
- chroma 7y ago
  Only 1 in 5 prisoners are there for nonviolent drug crimes. You can't reduce the prison population by more than that unless you want to repeal laws against fraud, burglary, rape, assault, or murder. One alternative would be to reduce sentences for those crimes, but good luck getting the public to vote for any politician who would propose such a thing. See https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html for some interesting stats on US prisons.
  - kazagistar 7y ago
    Or improve policies that lead to lower rates of those crimes.
lukev 7y ago
Rather than building enough prisons, what if they just set target incarceration rates, built capacity for that, and then required that the justice system sentence and parole accordingly? There's no reason to have over half a percentage of point of the entire population in prison. Almost no other country in the world does this. Capping incarceration rates not only prevents prison overcrowding, but is a forcing function for policy changes that actually lower crime, as well as alternative sentencing options for non-violent crime (which almost always have better outcomes.)
dragonwriter 7y ago
> The idea that a special interest that is financially powerful and interested in high prison population, may inject wrong incentives into the society is real and understandable. And well established as a thing that happens at all times in California, but the real major culprit of that type is the California Correctional Peace Officers Association, not the private prison industry. > California's real problem is MASSIVE prison population It's been declining for nearly a decade, and despite California being the largest-population state, it's got a smaller prison population than Texas. But, yes, the prison population is too high. > Prison overcrowd is a feature of CA prison system. This is true, though that has also been reduced as prison population has. > I wish they ordered their priorities right and built enough prisons to house the population safely. Better would be to reduce the prison population to the level that can be safely housed in the existing facilities. California's problem is too many prisoners, not too few prisons.

pavel_lishin 7y ago

Wouldn't the better solution to these priorities be shrinking down those definitions of crime, and not filling up the prisons we've got, rather than building bigger ones?

chroma 7y ago
Only 1 in 5 prisoners are there for nonviolent drug crimes. You can't reduce the prison population by more than that unless you want to repeal laws against fraud, burglary, rape, assault, or murder. One alternative would be to reduce sentences for those crimes, but good luck getting the public to vote for any politician who would propose such a thing. See https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html for some interesting stats on US prisons.
- kazagistar 7y ago
  Or improve policies that lead to lower rates of those crimes.

lukev 7y ago

Rather than building enough prisons, what if they just set target incarceration rates, built capacity for that, and then required that the justice system sentence and parole accordingly? There's no reason to have over half a percentage of point of the entire population in prison. Almost no other country in the world does this. Capping incarceration rates not only prevents prison overcrowding, but is a forcing function for policy changes that actually lower crime, as well as alternative sentencing options for non-violent crime (which almost always have better outcomes.)

dragonwriter 7y ago

> The idea that a special interest that is financially powerful and interested in high prison population, may inject wrong incentives into the society is real and understandable. And well established as a thing that happens at all times in California, but the real major culprit of that type is the California Correctional Peace Officers Association, not the private prison industry. > California's real problem is MASSIVE prison population It's been declining for nearly a decade, and despite California being the largest-population state, it's got a smaller prison population than Texas. But, yes, the prison population is too high. > Prison overcrowd is a feature of CA prison system. This is true, though that has also been reduced as prison population has. > I wish they ordered their priorities right and built enough prisons to house the population safely. Better would be to reduce the prison population to the level that can be safely housed in the existing facilities. California's problem is too many prisoners, not too few prisons.