4 ms·

Does it really remove the profit motive from incarceration? There are still thousands of vendors of various types making probably billions of dollars off of pri

Does it really remove the profit motive from incarceration? There are still thousands of vendors of various types making probably billions of dollars off of prisons, private facility or no.

colecut 7y ago
Progress is better than no progress.. Removing profit motives can only happen by reducing profit motives
- elicash 7y ago
  They're still making a great point. Yeah it's progress but I think most people aren't aware of the extent of the problem, making further progress impossible. There's some really terrible abuses happening, like replacing visitors with video chat that you have to pay for. More info: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/visitation/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/visitation/ Another example: getting rid of donated books and libraries in favor of paid tablets that also restrict the books you can buy, both for political and monetary reasons.
  - colecut 7y ago
    True... the outrageous telephone call fees being just one completely unjustifiable thing that comes to mind.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
killface 7y ago
don't let perfection be the enemy of progress.
rtkwe 7y ago
Yeah it's not great but it's a move in the right direction and beyond closing all prisons there will always be a need for vendors to provide goods and services inside prisons. Prisoners need food and clothing at the very least and it'll be bought from someone.
- elicash 7y ago
  They don't need phone calls in some jails that cost over $20 for 15 minutes. Please don't make excuses for a corrupt system. Yeah, this is a win, but the problem is MASSIVE and in so many different domains. Frankly, you don't seem aware of the many issues that they were hinting at.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    Sorry I didn't provide an exhaustive list of all the evils in the prison vendor system I'm aware of. I know about the horrendously expensive phone calls and the move toward video conferencing in place of in person visitation and the massive over charging for commissary items and the nearly slave 'wages' prisoners are paid for jobs they have no option to reject. I just didn't think I needed to provide an exacting list of thing that will probably always involve a vendor. For example though unless the state gets into growing and preparing all the food from scratch there'll always be a food vendor in place, maybe just a normal food services company but it'll always be bought from someone, similarly for clothes and furniture.
    - elicash 7y ago
      I think I was too negative in that comment. I apologize. I do think you're minimizing the issue in the way you talk about it, but the line about you not being aware of problems wasn't justified in the slightest and was just rude.
      - rtkwe 7y ago
        Yeah, could have been a bit less snippy myself. This whole thread has been super frustrating though with so many responses that to me boil down to "why didn't they tackle the whole gordian knot of the prison industrial complex?"

Does it really remove the profit motive from incarceration? There are still thousands of vendors of various types making probably billions of dollars off of prisons, private facility or no.

colecut 7y ago

Progress is better than no progress.. Removing profit motives can only happen by reducing profit motives

elicash 7y ago
They're still making a great point. Yeah it's progress but I think most people aren't aware of the extent of the problem, making further progress impossible. There's some really terrible abuses happening, like replacing visitors with video chat that you have to pay for. More info: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/visitation/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/visitation/ Another example: getting rid of donated books and libraries in favor of paid tablets that also restrict the books you can buy, both for political and monetary reasons.
- colecut 7y ago
  True... the outrageous telephone call fees being just one completely unjustifiable thing that comes to mind.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

killface 7y ago

don't let perfection be the enemy of progress.

rtkwe 7y ago

Yeah it's not great but it's a move in the right direction and beyond closing all prisons there will always be a need for vendors to provide goods and services inside prisons. Prisoners need food and clothing at the very least and it'll be bought from someone.

elicash 7y ago
They don't need phone calls in some jails that cost over $20 for 15 minutes. Please don't make excuses for a corrupt system. Yeah, this is a win, but the problem is MASSIVE and in so many different domains. Frankly, you don't seem aware of the many issues that they were hinting at.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Sorry I didn't provide an exhaustive list of all the evils in the prison vendor system I'm aware of. I know about the horrendously expensive phone calls and the move toward video conferencing in place of in person visitation and the massive over charging for commissary items and the nearly slave 'wages' prisoners are paid for jobs they have no option to reject. I just didn't think I needed to provide an exacting list of thing that will probably always involve a vendor. For example though unless the state gets into growing and preparing all the food from scratch there'll always be a food vendor in place, maybe just a normal food services company but it'll always be bought from someone, similarly for clothes and furniture.
  - elicash 7y ago
    I think I was too negative in that comment. I apologize. I do think you're minimizing the issue in the way you talk about it, but the line about you not being aware of problems wasn't justified in the slightest and was just rude.
    - rtkwe 7y ago
      Yeah, could have been a bit less snippy myself. This whole thread has been super frustrating though with so many responses that to me boil down to "why didn't they tackle the whole gordian knot of the prison industrial complex?"