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I agree that it’s sad that e-scooters are banned in the UK. I take the train to work and I have ~20mins of waking either end (1 hr 20 mins per day total). An el

I agree that it’s sad that e-scooters are banned in the UK. I take the train to work and I have ~20mins of waking either end (1 hr 20 mins per day total). An electric scooter could save me ~40 mins per day.... Why are electric scooters banned when e-bikes are fine? What if they were capped at 20mph? Below the 25 for bikes

smashah 7y ago
Ebikes are technically restricted to 15mph here. The micromobility laws in the UK are a complete joke and driven by car and tier 1 manufacturers lobbying (e.g Bosch via EU). EBikes and scooters are hands down the best solution to London's pollution issue yet people are getting fined for using them. There is a complete lack of logic in the rulings. The reason why escooters are illegal whereas EBikes are not: throttle. An ebike with a throttle is technically not legal and in the same boat as an escooter. This distinction is ridiculous as an ecyclist/scooterist with a throttle is safer than someone going the same speed under their own effort. The law in the UK should be: - throttle is allowed - fine if not wearing proper safety equipment - Speed limit increased to 25 mph or current vehicle speed limit (e.g 20 near schools) - no power limit (this allows heavier people to go the same speed as others, and it allows heavier cargo-type bikes to be much more useful) - Innovate UK/BEIS grants specifically for electric micromobility projects (right now EBikes and scooters are generally barred from these grant competitions)
- ljf 7y ago
  The speed limitation is down to the fact that they don't need insuring. Like pedal bikes the idea is that they will cause limited injury or damage to property in the event of a crash. Up things to 25mph, plus the frame/battery weight needed to add strength and safety to accelerate and brake swiftly, and suddenly you have plenty of energy to damage a car or other piece of property or hurt a human (yes I know cyclists also occasionally hurt humans). So therefore they will need insurance, and therefore need registration. And guess what, you can ride an electric scooter or bike at the speeds you mentioned, you just need to register and insure it. It is entirely possible and people do. What you are suggesting is a way to ride fast vehicles without the social contract of insurance and traceability.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    The fact that you're suggesting insurance and registration are to be expected for any class of vehicle short of a moped is completely foreign to me.
    - wwosik 7y ago
      In Switzerland you need it for bikes and they still manage
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        Being able to "manage" doesn't mean it's not a net negative on society. If everyone was required to insure stuffed animals it would be cheap and perfectly "manageable" because the risk would be so low and the overhead would be spread over society but that overhead would still be pissed away on something non-productive because the net benefit to society of insuring stuffed animals is so small.
    - ljf 7y ago
      Yup, it all needs insuring here - even the 35cc autocycle I used to have needed it - but it only needed a cheap daylight mot (no lights, indicators or speedo) and tax was £15 insurance was just £50 at the time. Being hit by a moped could easily cause life changing injuries, so I'm pleased to see them insured.
      - smashah 7y ago
        No it doesn't. There is already voluntary insurance for (e) cycling here. Making it mandatory for some makes no sense. Ebike is not a moped. Mopeds can go much faster than the proposed limit of 25mph. Mandatory insurance is a band aid.
    - monk_e_boy 7y ago
      I dunno, we have voluntary insurance for kitesurfing. Why not? Insurance companies will do it pretty cheap.
- jstanley 7y ago
  Why do you want to fine ebikers for not wearing what you consider to be the "proper safety equipment", even after you yourself said that an ebiker with a throttle is safer than an ordinary cyclist at the same speed?
  - smashah 7y ago
    I agree with the arguments and facts against forcing safety gear. It's in the list as a compromise under certain conditions - if any proper micromobility legislation can happen without it then great.
- RobinL 7y ago
  I wonder why someone doesn't just make a scooter that does a similar thing some electric bikes do: the motor kicks in once you start moving and 'assists' you to kick the scooter along. Perhaps that would also be illegal? It's a very strange legal situation.
- pmontra 7y ago
  Don't know about the UK but in Italy the law is that (traditional) bicycles don't need any registration and helmet, ebikes are the same but the engine must be on only if the rider pedals and shuts down at 25 km/h. If not, it's a motorbike and needs driving license, helmet, registration and insurance. After all who cares if the engine is petrol or electric. Escooters are about to be regulated. They should be motorbikes IMHO, but the slower speed and the way people use them make them something different. After all we want less cars around and escooters are a way to that goal. But please, ban them from sidewalks. Having something fast moving among pedestrians is dangerous. Same for bicycles (and I'm a cyclist), only bike lanes and roads. Furthermore sidewalks are full of obstacles and have way worse pavements than roads.
monk_e_boy 7y ago
I doubt the police would stop you. I can't believe you won't use one if it saves that much time! Be brave!
- Blackstone4 7y ago
  I've only just started this commute so I'm thinking about it.... if I figure out that I can't get away with it then I'm stuck with a useless piece of kit.
  - NewsAware 7y ago
    Maybe not possible for you, but where I live (Germany) the obvious solution would be to get 2 cheap used bikes for both start/end legs and chain them at the station.
adrianN 7y ago
You could always get a non-electric kick scooter. Not quite as fast as the electric version, but faster than walking.

smashah 7y ago

Ebikes are technically restricted to 15mph here. The micromobility laws in the UK are a complete joke and driven by car and tier 1 manufacturers lobbying (e.g Bosch via EU). EBikes and scooters are hands down the best solution to London's pollution issue yet people are getting fined for using them. There is a complete lack of logic in the rulings. The reason why escooters are illegal whereas EBikes are not: throttle. An ebike with a throttle is technically not legal and in the same boat as an escooter. This distinction is ridiculous as an ecyclist/scooterist with a throttle is safer than someone going the same speed under their own effort. The law in the UK should be: - throttle is allowed - fine if not wearing proper safety equipment - Speed limit increased to 25 mph or current vehicle speed limit (e.g 20 near schools) - no power limit (this allows heavier people to go the same speed as others, and it allows heavier cargo-type bikes to be much more useful) - Innovate UK/BEIS grants specifically for electric micromobility projects (right now EBikes and scooters are generally barred from these grant competitions)

ljf 7y ago
The speed limitation is down to the fact that they don't need insuring. Like pedal bikes the idea is that they will cause limited injury or damage to property in the event of a crash. Up things to 25mph, plus the frame/battery weight needed to add strength and safety to accelerate and brake swiftly, and suddenly you have plenty of energy to damage a car or other piece of property or hurt a human (yes I know cyclists also occasionally hurt humans). So therefore they will need insurance, and therefore need registration. And guess what, you can ride an electric scooter or bike at the speeds you mentioned, you just need to register and insure it. It is entirely possible and people do. What you are suggesting is a way to ride fast vehicles without the social contract of insurance and traceability.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  The fact that you're suggesting insurance and registration are to be expected for any class of vehicle short of a moped is completely foreign to me.
  - wwosik 7y ago
    In Switzerland you need it for bikes and they still manage
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      Being able to "manage" doesn't mean it's not a net negative on society. If everyone was required to insure stuffed animals it would be cheap and perfectly "manageable" because the risk would be so low and the overhead would be spread over society but that overhead would still be pissed away on something non-productive because the net benefit to society of insuring stuffed animals is so small.
  - ljf 7y ago
    Yup, it all needs insuring here - even the 35cc autocycle I used to have needed it - but it only needed a cheap daylight mot (no lights, indicators or speedo) and tax was £15 insurance was just £50 at the time. Being hit by a moped could easily cause life changing injuries, so I'm pleased to see them insured.
    - smashah 7y ago
      No it doesn't. There is already voluntary insurance for (e) cycling here. Making it mandatory for some makes no sense. Ebike is not a moped. Mopeds can go much faster than the proposed limit of 25mph. Mandatory insurance is a band aid.
  - monk_e_boy 7y ago
    I dunno, we have voluntary insurance for kitesurfing. Why not? Insurance companies will do it pretty cheap.
jstanley 7y ago
Why do you want to fine ebikers for not wearing what you consider to be the "proper safety equipment", even after you yourself said that an ebiker with a throttle is safer than an ordinary cyclist at the same speed?
- smashah 7y ago
  I agree with the arguments and facts against forcing safety gear. It's in the list as a compromise under certain conditions - if any proper micromobility legislation can happen without it then great.
RobinL 7y ago
I wonder why someone doesn't just make a scooter that does a similar thing some electric bikes do: the motor kicks in once you start moving and 'assists' you to kick the scooter along. Perhaps that would also be illegal? It's a very strange legal situation.
pmontra 7y ago
Don't know about the UK but in Italy the law is that (traditional) bicycles don't need any registration and helmet, ebikes are the same but the engine must be on only if the rider pedals and shuts down at 25 km/h. If not, it's a motorbike and needs driving license, helmet, registration and insurance. After all who cares if the engine is petrol or electric. Escooters are about to be regulated. They should be motorbikes IMHO, but the slower speed and the way people use them make them something different. After all we want less cars around and escooters are a way to that goal. But please, ban them from sidewalks. Having something fast moving among pedestrians is dangerous. Same for bicycles (and I'm a cyclist), only bike lanes and roads. Furthermore sidewalks are full of obstacles and have way worse pavements than roads.

monk_e_boy 7y ago

I doubt the police would stop you. I can't believe you won't use one if it saves that much time! Be brave!

Blackstone4 7y ago
I've only just started this commute so I'm thinking about it.... if I figure out that I can't get away with it then I'm stuck with a useless piece of kit.
- NewsAware 7y ago
  Maybe not possible for you, but where I live (Germany) the obvious solution would be to get 2 cheap used bikes for both start/end legs and chain them at the station.

adrianN 7y ago

You could always get a non-electric kick scooter. Not quite as fast as the electric version, but faster than walking.