4 ms·

Only at the margins are other people with machines enslaving anyone. I think it's mostly an emergent phenomena enslaving everyone into some cultural and behavi

Only at the margins are other people with machines enslaving anyone. I think it's mostly an emergent phenomena enslaving everyone into some cultural and behavioral paradigm that nobody intends or particularly wants. But the costs of shutting down all these incentivizing/nudging/conditioning/addicting technologies would kill most of the tech sector (by market cap), and therefore can't be seriously entertained.

partialrecall 7y ago
> "But the costs of shutting down all these incentivizing/nudging/conditioning/addicting technologies would kill most of the tech sector (by market cap), and therefore can't be seriously entertained." So the industry is too big to fail?
autoexec 7y ago
> But the costs of shutting down all these incentivizing/nudging/conditioning/addicting technologies would kill most of the tech sector (by market cap) I couldn't care less if predatory companies collapse. None of the tech itself is inherently evil, its only being used against us instead of working for us. If google were disbanded or broken up today new companies would rise up continue to do what they do now under more responsible terms. Those companies can continue to provide cell phones and email accounts without using those things to build dossiers on the people who just want to communicate with friends and family. Many people today think it's impossible to offer anything if you aren't abusing your users because that's all they know, but I remember when there were hundreds of free email providers long before it became technically feasible to read every last email stored on the server to spy on users.
- laurex 7y ago
  As someone working on the problem of "how do we have a hugely popular free product that doesn't make money off user data or selling information to advertisers" - the reason why there used to be a bunch of free email programs and most people now use Google is that it's incredibly hard to scale free technology without doing it in a way that isn't creepy (or being acquired by a company that will eventually insist on creepiness). Hopefully not an impossible problem.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  >new companies would rise up continue to do what they do now under more responsible terms. I think that's a naive position to take. People are people, and human nature really is hard to fight. It's a virtual certainty that anything replacing google, will be violating your security and privacy. Especially if it's "free".
  - autoexec 7y ago
    I think it'd end up like what happened when Ma Bell was broken up. Over time the companies have merged back into just a few and not everything got better, and tech evolved rapidly which complicates direct comparisons but at the same time, I've got several phones in my home and none of them have "property of AT&T" engraved into them. Some things improved. Companies are amoral monsters who care about nothing but making money and there will always be a struggle with regulation followed by deregulation followed by more regulation as people push back against abuse, but that cycle has kept things in relative order. Companies have gotten very good at inserting themselves into government, directly and indirectly, to stand in the way and prevent the people from keeping them in line, but I don't think it's entirely hopeless yet.
phjesusthatguy3 7y ago
Google is doing this on purpose.

partialrecall 7y ago

> "But the costs of shutting down all these incentivizing/nudging/conditioning/addicting technologies would kill most of the tech sector (by market cap), and therefore can't be seriously entertained." So the industry is too big to fail?

autoexec 7y ago

> But the costs of shutting down all these incentivizing/nudging/conditioning/addicting technologies would kill most of the tech sector (by market cap) I couldn't care less if predatory companies collapse. None of the tech itself is inherently evil, its only being used against us instead of working for us. If google were disbanded or broken up today new companies would rise up continue to do what they do now under more responsible terms. Those companies can continue to provide cell phones and email accounts without using those things to build dossiers on the people who just want to communicate with friends and family. Many people today think it's impossible to offer anything if you aren't abusing your users because that's all they know, but I remember when there were hundreds of free email providers long before it became technically feasible to read every last email stored on the server to spy on users.

laurex 7y ago
As someone working on the problem of "how do we have a hugely popular free product that doesn't make money off user data or selling information to advertisers" - the reason why there used to be a bunch of free email programs and most people now use Google is that it's incredibly hard to scale free technology without doing it in a way that isn't creepy (or being acquired by a company that will eventually insist on creepiness). Hopefully not an impossible problem.
bilbo0s 7y ago
>new companies would rise up continue to do what they do now under more responsible terms. I think that's a naive position to take. People are people, and human nature really is hard to fight. It's a virtual certainty that anything replacing google, will be violating your security and privacy. Especially if it's "free".
- autoexec 7y ago
  I think it'd end up like what happened when Ma Bell was broken up. Over time the companies have merged back into just a few and not everything got better, and tech evolved rapidly which complicates direct comparisons but at the same time, I've got several phones in my home and none of them have "property of AT&T" engraved into them. Some things improved. Companies are amoral monsters who care about nothing but making money and there will always be a struggle with regulation followed by deregulation followed by more regulation as people push back against abuse, but that cycle has kept things in relative order. Companies have gotten very good at inserting themselves into government, directly and indirectly, to stand in the way and prevent the people from keeping them in line, but I don't think it's entirely hopeless yet.

phjesusthatguy3 7y ago

Google is doing this on purpose.