6 ms·

You have the deal with the bike afterwords. Go for brunch in the mission and your friends are going back to the outer sunset with a scooter just fold it up and

You have the deal with the bike afterwords. Go for brunch in the mission and your friends are going back to the outer sunset with a scooter just fold it up and put it in the car with a bike either hope it's there when you get back, bike all the way, or go home then head over alone.

eldenbishop 7y ago
This exactly: bikes require planning and strategy and are not good for improvisational day-to-day things like you described. Bikes make walking easier but all other forms of travel like bus, train or taxi/uber/cars more difficult or impossible.
- jdavis703 7y ago
  > bikes require planning and strategy What? I don't plan or strategize any more or less than someone getting in a car might think about the optimal rush hour route.
  - notJim 7y ago
    Exactly. I think the point is that a scooter allows you to plan far less.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    A car can be parked on the street (at least in theory, I'm aware SF's parking may be less amenable), and has a high likelihood of being there and intact when you return. Without bike-parking infrastructure -- ubiquitous racks -- bikes are far less likely to be found where left, and far more likely to be damaged, vandalised, and/or have components nicked. I've lived where cycling was well-supported and routes and racks reasonable. And where not. For SF, hills, parking, and traffic all work against cycling.
    - jdavis703 7y ago
      > bikes are far less likely to be found where left, and far more likely to be damaged, vandalised, and/or have components nicked. I don't own a car anymore, but when I did I had countless break ins. Most times nothing was taken. Petty theft & vandalism is a problem here regardless of vehicle type.
- maccam94 7y ago
  Dockless and docked bikeshare programs both mitigate this issue, with trade-offs on the inconvenience of finding bikes/parking them.
  - coredog64 7y ago
    Citibike in NYC is a dumpster fire. Same price as subway ride for a 30 minute ride. Each ride segment has to be 30 minutes or less or they start charging you by the minute. You can’t check out more than one bike on a single account. The full docks don’t correctly report in, meaning even though the dock is full, you can’t get a time extension while you go out of your way to return the bike.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
      That's the tourist price. NYC residents typically buy an annual pass for $170, which gives you free 45 minute segments.
    - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
      Been using CitiBike for 3 years. None of these have been an issue for me, except for the 30 minute time limit, but I was going from WTC to 96th st which took me 40 minutes
  - acchow 7y ago
    Nowhere near as convenient as a scooter. Closing the last half mile on a trip on scooter is a breeze. Sometimes the nearest bike docks at start and end total half a mile distance. Dockless bike? They are generally quite sparse where I am.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  In Copenhagen it's often the opposite: the rest of the group came by bike, they're within 20m of the current bar, the person on foot will have to turn up later. Or we all walk. (Also, the suburban trains and taxis carry bikes for free.)
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    What's bike theft like in Copenhagen? I have two bikes but I drive to brunch because I'm afraid of losing my bike to a thief and parking is easier to deal with than having to carry my lock.
    - 0xfaded 7y ago
      Most bikes are beaters and wouldn't be worth stealing for it's value, although I've been told every Dane has stolen a bike once in their life when in need of transport.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      Leave the lock at work, locked to the rack or a fence. That might not work for brunch. Most people use either old or fairly cheap (<€500) city bikes. We only lock the rear wheel; if you want to you can pick up the bike and walk off with it. Some people do have nicer bikes, and they chain the bikes to something solid. I did this for 6 months when my city bike was new.
  - derefr 7y ago
    > Also, the suburban trains and taxis carry bikes for free. Sure, but how many will fit on one train/taxi? Here in Vancouver we have two bike-slots per bus and ~4 per train (which is actually just general accessibility-device space, for e.g. powered-wheelchairs, and is almost always taken already.)
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      Taxis take two. Wikipedia says a suburban train takes 46 bikes. I should check, as the press release from the company doesn't give a figure. I don't commute by train, so I don't know if that's still not enough. Many people do leave a second bicycle at the station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/presse/nyheder/mere-plads-til-cykler-i-s-toget/ https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/presse/nyheder/mere-plads-til-cykl...
- vel0city 7y ago
  IRT bicycles in relation to buses and trains, mass transit can be designed with bikes in mind. Dallas is not exactly known for having the best mass transit system around, but DART buses have easy to use bike racks on the front and the light rail trains have handicap accessible cars with flat loading platforms and hooks to hang your bike to keep it somewhat out of the way. Your points on other forms of travel, such as regular cars + bicycles, are definitely true. https://www.dart.org/riding/bikeracksonbuses.asp https://www.dart.org/riding/bikeracksonbuses.asp https://www.dart.org/riding/bikesontrains.asp https://www.dart.org/riding/bikesontrains.asp
- shafyy 7y ago
  If you think bikes requires planning and strategy you're doing it wrong. All you need is a good lock (make sure to put in wheel locks so you don't need to have that ridicolous cable-lock setup). Do you sometimes need to walk 50m to find a pole or bike rack? Sure, but that doesn't require planning and strategy.
crimsonalucard 7y ago
Get a brompton.
- frabbit 7y ago
  Or a Bike Friday Pakit https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/product/bike-friday-pakit-compact-folding-bike https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/product/bike-friday...
  - jdietrich 7y ago
    The Brompton is really the only game in town for urban folding bikes. Uniquely, the Brompton locks into a compact and balanced package that can be comfortably carried in one hand. If you opt for a model with a pannier rack (or buy an EazyWheels kit) the folded bike can be pulled around like a wheeled suitcase. There are lots of good folding bikes, but only one good folded bike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cepoV17TH-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cepoV17TH-A
    - frabbit 7y ago
      Depends on what you're looking for. I found the wheel size a bit too small. I think this is a fair comparison and gives the advantage to the Brompton in small folded size, although its weight is not something to be taken lightly (!) http://anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/ http://anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/ I love the Pakit, however I like the looks of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkzRF3trJM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkzRF3trJM https://youtu.be/xscDjAmD2MM?t=251 https://youtu.be/xscDjAmD2MM?t=251
- fragmede 7y ago
  While the folding bike concept is cool, and it's actually really handy to be able to take them on trains where a non-folding would be disallowed, and while they are also more convenient than a full size bike, they're still big and cumbersome when folded up. I can take mine on the bus, but that wouldn't be my first choice. I can take a regular Lyft, but not a Lyft Line with it. (I mean I could, but that's a dick move.) You're "that guy" at the bar after work. Like I said, I own one (well, a Dahon), and it's definitely useful, more convenient than a full size, non-folding bike, but it doesn't actually solve the issue, merely alleviates it somewhat.
walshemj 7y ago
The answer is a Brompton or other folders you can even get an electric Brompton now.
- dTal 7y ago
  They're horribly expensive. Cheap, properly portable, properly rideable: choose two.
reneherse 7y ago
For people who are REALLY into bikes, a "rinko bike" helps with this. For general use however, I'm convinced about using a scooter as described above by the GGP.
- chdhchd 7y ago
  Have you done much travel with a rinko-style dismantled bike in the US? I'm curious how trains and buses feel about the (still big and unwieldy) bag.
  - reneherse 7y ago
    I haven't personally, but there was recently a discussion of that very topic on the i-bob list. [1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/internet-bob/bWwsR-J2LMY https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/internet-bob/bWwsR-J...
- ACow_Adonis 7y ago
  I've just bought the xootr, will see how it goes. But part of the rationale for trying it (as opposed to my bike) is that I wouldn't feel too self- conscious about taking the scooter onto public transport during rush hour. It's all marginal, but when it's standing room only, the extra space taken up by the folding bikes is just eeking that little bit more into the "socially unacceptable dick- move" category. Might not be applicable if you're not in place where public transport gets that busy, but definitely a consideration here. Plus my hope is the ability to carry it easily one handed, and store it under (or leaving it standing vertically) my desks at both work and at home (as opposed to my bike, which resides underground in the garage), and that i can conceivably ride it in a suit. Plus, I can access both sidewalks and paths and roads (which is a legal consideration here) As I said, we'll see how it goes...but it seems to make sense on paper...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
shafyy 7y ago
Or just, and here me out here, bike to the outer sunset. Sounds crazy. Depending on your fitness level, you might arrive a couple of minutes later than your friends, but so what.

eldenbishop 7y ago

This exactly: bikes require planning and strategy and are not good for improvisational day-to-day things like you described. Bikes make walking easier but all other forms of travel like bus, train or taxi/uber/cars more difficult or impossible.

jdavis703 7y ago
> bikes require planning and strategy What? I don't plan or strategize any more or less than someone getting in a car might think about the optimal rush hour route.
- notJim 7y ago
  Exactly. I think the point is that a scooter allows you to plan far less.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  A car can be parked on the street (at least in theory, I'm aware SF's parking may be less amenable), and has a high likelihood of being there and intact when you return. Without bike-parking infrastructure -- ubiquitous racks -- bikes are far less likely to be found where left, and far more likely to be damaged, vandalised, and/or have components nicked. I've lived where cycling was well-supported and routes and racks reasonable. And where not. For SF, hills, parking, and traffic all work against cycling.
  - jdavis703 7y ago
    > bikes are far less likely to be found where left, and far more likely to be damaged, vandalised, and/or have components nicked. I don't own a car anymore, but when I did I had countless break ins. Most times nothing was taken. Petty theft & vandalism is a problem here regardless of vehicle type.
maccam94 7y ago
Dockless and docked bikeshare programs both mitigate this issue, with trade-offs on the inconvenience of finding bikes/parking them.
- coredog64 7y ago
  Citibike in NYC is a dumpster fire. Same price as subway ride for a 30 minute ride. Each ride segment has to be 30 minutes or less or they start charging you by the minute. You can’t check out more than one bike on a single account. The full docks don’t correctly report in, meaning even though the dock is full, you can’t get a time extension while you go out of your way to return the bike.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
    That's the tourist price. NYC residents typically buy an annual pass for $170, which gives you free 45 minute segments.
  - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
    Been using CitiBike for 3 years. None of these have been an issue for me, except for the 30 minute time limit, but I was going from WTC to 96th st which took me 40 minutes
- acchow 7y ago
  Nowhere near as convenient as a scooter. Closing the last half mile on a trip on scooter is a breeze. Sometimes the nearest bike docks at start and end total half a mile distance. Dockless bike? They are generally quite sparse where I am.
Symbiote 7y ago
In Copenhagen it's often the opposite: the rest of the group came by bike, they're within 20m of the current bar, the person on foot will have to turn up later. Or we all walk. (Also, the suburban trains and taxis carry bikes for free.)
- scarejunba 7y ago
  What's bike theft like in Copenhagen? I have two bikes but I drive to brunch because I'm afraid of losing my bike to a thief and parking is easier to deal with than having to carry my lock.
  - 0xfaded 7y ago
    Most bikes are beaters and wouldn't be worth stealing for it's value, although I've been told every Dane has stolen a bike once in their life when in need of transport.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Leave the lock at work, locked to the rack or a fence. That might not work for brunch. Most people use either old or fairly cheap (<€500) city bikes. We only lock the rear wheel; if you want to you can pick up the bike and walk off with it. Some people do have nicer bikes, and they chain the bikes to something solid. I did this for 6 months when my city bike was new.
- derefr 7y ago
  > Also, the suburban trains and taxis carry bikes for free. Sure, but how many will fit on one train/taxi? Here in Vancouver we have two bike-slots per bus and ~4 per train (which is actually just general accessibility-device space, for e.g. powered-wheelchairs, and is almost always taken already.)
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Taxis take two. Wikipedia says a suburban train takes 46 bikes. I should check, as the press release from the company doesn't give a figure. I don't commute by train, so I don't know if that's still not enough. Many people do leave a second bicycle at the station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/presse/nyheder/mere-plads-til-cykler-i-s-toget/ https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/presse/nyheder/mere-plads-til-cykl...
vel0city 7y ago
IRT bicycles in relation to buses and trains, mass transit can be designed with bikes in mind. Dallas is not exactly known for having the best mass transit system around, but DART buses have easy to use bike racks on the front and the light rail trains have handicap accessible cars with flat loading platforms and hooks to hang your bike to keep it somewhat out of the way. Your points on other forms of travel, such as regular cars + bicycles, are definitely true. https://www.dart.org/riding/bikeracksonbuses.asp https://www.dart.org/riding/bikeracksonbuses.asp https://www.dart.org/riding/bikesontrains.asp https://www.dart.org/riding/bikesontrains.asp
shafyy 7y ago
If you think bikes requires planning and strategy you're doing it wrong. All you need is a good lock (make sure to put in wheel locks so you don't need to have that ridicolous cable-lock setup). Do you sometimes need to walk 50m to find a pole or bike rack? Sure, but that doesn't require planning and strategy.

crimsonalucard 7y ago

Get a brompton.

frabbit 7y ago
Or a Bike Friday Pakit https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/product/bike-friday-pakit-compact-folding-bike https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/product/bike-friday...
- jdietrich 7y ago
  The Brompton is really the only game in town for urban folding bikes. Uniquely, the Brompton locks into a compact and balanced package that can be comfortably carried in one hand. If you opt for a model with a pannier rack (or buy an EazyWheels kit) the folded bike can be pulled around like a wheeled suitcase. There are lots of good folding bikes, but only one good folded bike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cepoV17TH-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cepoV17TH-A
  - frabbit 7y ago
    Depends on what you're looking for. I found the wheel size a bit too small. I think this is a fair comparison and gives the advantage to the Brompton in small folded size, although its weight is not something to be taken lightly (!) http://anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/ http://anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/ I love the Pakit, however I like the looks of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkzRF3trJM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkzRF3trJM https://youtu.be/xscDjAmD2MM?t=251 https://youtu.be/xscDjAmD2MM?t=251
fragmede 7y ago
While the folding bike concept is cool, and it's actually really handy to be able to take them on trains where a non-folding would be disallowed, and while they are also more convenient than a full size bike, they're still big and cumbersome when folded up. I can take mine on the bus, but that wouldn't be my first choice. I can take a regular Lyft, but not a Lyft Line with it. (I mean I could, but that's a dick move.) You're "that guy" at the bar after work. Like I said, I own one (well, a Dahon), and it's definitely useful, more convenient than a full size, non-folding bike, but it doesn't actually solve the issue, merely alleviates it somewhat.

walshemj 7y ago

The answer is a Brompton or other folders you can even get an electric Brompton now.

dTal 7y ago
They're horribly expensive. Cheap, properly portable, properly rideable: choose two.

reneherse 7y ago

For people who are REALLY into bikes, a "rinko bike" helps with this. For general use however, I'm convinced about using a scooter as described above by the GGP.

chdhchd 7y ago
Have you done much travel with a rinko-style dismantled bike in the US? I'm curious how trains and buses feel about the (still big and unwieldy) bag.
- reneherse 7y ago
  I haven't personally, but there was recently a discussion of that very topic on the i-bob list. [1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/internet-bob/bWwsR-J2LMY https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/internet-bob/bWwsR-J...
ACow_Adonis 7y ago
I've just bought the xootr, will see how it goes. But part of the rationale for trying it (as opposed to my bike) is that I wouldn't feel too self- conscious about taking the scooter onto public transport during rush hour. It's all marginal, but when it's standing room only, the extra space taken up by the folding bikes is just eeking that little bit more into the "socially unacceptable dick- move" category. Might not be applicable if you're not in place where public transport gets that busy, but definitely a consideration here. Plus my hope is the ability to carry it easily one handed, and store it under (or leaving it standing vertically) my desks at both work and at home (as opposed to my bike, which resides underground in the garage), and that i can conceivably ride it in a suit. Plus, I can access both sidewalks and paths and roads (which is a legal consideration here) As I said, we'll see how it goes...but it seems to make sense on paper...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

shafyy 7y ago

Or just, and here me out here, bike to the outer sunset. Sounds crazy. Depending on your fitness level, you might arrive a couple of minutes later than your friends, but so what.