5 ms·

the cartel is one of the deadliest groups in the world. now throw in ms-13 etc.

by alkibiades 7y ago

pstuart 7y ago
The cartel and ms-13 were creations of the US, so it's kind of a domestic issue.
- alkibiades 7y ago
  oh yeah i forgot the US is responsible for everything.
  - pstuart 7y ago
    Not everything, but to deny its role in shaping the world is unreasonable. The War on Drugs is behind this mess. The cartel was born out of this, and MS-13 was a result of that, our "justice" system. This doesn't make cartel or MS-13 members innocents, but it's not like they came from a vacuum.
    - 80386 7y ago
      Does that mean Americans deserve to be subject to the cartels and MS-13?
      - akhilcacharya 7y ago
        Absolutely not! But MS-13 was literally founded in the US.
      - neotek 7y ago
        Nobody* deserves to be the subject of violence but at some point Americans need to take responsibility for creating (and continuing to create) the environment in which cartels can flourish. When almost half the country can't even be bothered voting, much less stand up against crimes against humanity like forcibly and intentionally separating children from their parents (sometimes permanently) and locking them in cages, then frankly I think you lose the right to complain about the circumstances you find yourself in. In other words, you can't take a shit on the kitchen counter and then complain about the smell.
    - alkibiades 7y ago
      we also ban human/child trafficking, which they engage heavily in. it’s obviously our fault for banning it and poor ms13 is forced to break our laws :(
  - mandevil 7y ago
    MS-13 was literally founded in the US, in Los Angeles. Their rise to prominence (from small street gang to transnational one) was under the control of a man named Ernesto Deras, who had been trained by US Army Green Berets in Panama while serving in the Salvadorean Special Forces, and then left El Salvador and moved to the US to escape the brutal civil war in El Salvador- a civil war the US did have some involvement in. But MS-13 (and their rivals the 18th Calle) started in the US and then emigrated back to El Salvador.
- Fellshard 7y ago
  'created /in/' is not equivalent to 'created /by/' or 'is a product of'.
dsalso 7y ago
As a Mexican I can only agree, and would love the US to have a hard solution to this problem which a wall could certainly help. People think migrants are the US's problem but no, sadly the real question is how can we make migrants thrive in their original places and why this is not the approach to take?
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  I completely agree that one approach to illegal immigration is understanding why illegal immigrants are coming to the US in the first place. In my analysis the US "War on drugs" is a major reason. Illegal goods in high demand mean smuggling and black markets with lots of profits. These markets cause criminal cartels. The cartels corrupt government and law enforcement. Corruption and cartel activity lead to high crime areas and low economic opportunity. High crime and lack of opportunity leads to people wanting to leave. The US also ended guest worker programs that made it easy for seasonal workers to work in the US and live in Mexico. Many people wanted to do this, so they could live in their homeland with their family, friends, and culture but also seasonally work in the US where they could earn more. By ending seasonal worker programs, the people who wanted to work in the US needed to do so illegally, and, in order to minimize the risk and hassle of repeat illegal border crossings, they made a single illegal crossing and lived and worked in the US with their families. If I were President, I'd end the drug war and decriminalize virtually all drugs. I'd also reinstate guest worker programs and make it very easy to get temporary legal access to the country. I'd invest in technology and infrastructure at the US Mexico border so we could move people through, both ways, as fast as possible. I'd also be involved with Central and South American allies and work with them to mitigate problems that may be the root of illegal immigration.
  - dsalso 7y ago
    I agree that the war on drugs is one component. However even before it (19th century Mexico) my country had structural issues leading to crime, inequality and corruption.

the cartel is one of the deadliest groups in the world. now throw in ms-13 etc.

pstuart 7y ago

The cartel and ms-13 were creations of the US, so it's kind of a domestic issue.

alkibiades 7y ago
oh yeah i forgot the US is responsible for everything.
- pstuart 7y ago
  Not everything, but to deny its role in shaping the world is unreasonable. The War on Drugs is behind this mess. The cartel was born out of this, and MS-13 was a result of that, our "justice" system. This doesn't make cartel or MS-13 members innocents, but it's not like they came from a vacuum.
  - 80386 7y ago
    Does that mean Americans deserve to be subject to the cartels and MS-13?
    - akhilcacharya 7y ago
      Absolutely not! But MS-13 was literally founded in the US.
    - neotek 7y ago
      Nobody* deserves to be the subject of violence but at some point Americans need to take responsibility for creating (and continuing to create) the environment in which cartels can flourish. When almost half the country can't even be bothered voting, much less stand up against crimes against humanity like forcibly and intentionally separating children from their parents (sometimes permanently) and locking them in cages, then frankly I think you lose the right to complain about the circumstances you find yourself in. In other words, you can't take a shit on the kitchen counter and then complain about the smell.
  - alkibiades 7y ago
    we also ban human/child trafficking, which they engage heavily in. it’s obviously our fault for banning it and poor ms13 is forced to break our laws :(
- mandevil 7y ago
  MS-13 was literally founded in the US, in Los Angeles. Their rise to prominence (from small street gang to transnational one) was under the control of a man named Ernesto Deras, who had been trained by US Army Green Berets in Panama while serving in the Salvadorean Special Forces, and then left El Salvador and moved to the US to escape the brutal civil war in El Salvador- a civil war the US did have some involvement in. But MS-13 (and their rivals the 18th Calle) started in the US and then emigrated back to El Salvador.
Fellshard 7y ago
'created /in/' is not equivalent to 'created /by/' or 'is a product of'.

dsalso 7y ago

As a Mexican I can only agree, and would love the US to have a hard solution to this problem which a wall could certainly help. People think migrants are the US's problem but no, sadly the real question is how can we make migrants thrive in their original places and why this is not the approach to take?

ALittleLight 7y ago
I completely agree that one approach to illegal immigration is understanding why illegal immigrants are coming to the US in the first place. In my analysis the US "War on drugs" is a major reason. Illegal goods in high demand mean smuggling and black markets with lots of profits. These markets cause criminal cartels. The cartels corrupt government and law enforcement. Corruption and cartel activity lead to high crime areas and low economic opportunity. High crime and lack of opportunity leads to people wanting to leave. The US also ended guest worker programs that made it easy for seasonal workers to work in the US and live in Mexico. Many people wanted to do this, so they could live in their homeland with their family, friends, and culture but also seasonally work in the US where they could earn more. By ending seasonal worker programs, the people who wanted to work in the US needed to do so illegally, and, in order to minimize the risk and hassle of repeat illegal border crossings, they made a single illegal crossing and lived and worked in the US with their families. If I were President, I'd end the drug war and decriminalize virtually all drugs. I'd also reinstate guest worker programs and make it very easy to get temporary legal access to the country. I'd invest in technology and infrastructure at the US Mexico border so we could move people through, both ways, as fast as possible. I'd also be involved with Central and South American allies and work with them to mitigate problems that may be the root of illegal immigration.
- dsalso 7y ago
  I agree that the war on drugs is one component. However even before it (19th century Mexico) my country had structural issues leading to crime, inequality and corruption.