8 ms·

“I felt like there were not nearly enough high-tech companies working on defense problems in a way that was more similar to the Silicon Valley model of innovati

by dpflan 7y ago

“I felt like there were not nearly enough high-tech companies working on defense problems in a way that was more similar to the Silicon Valley model of innovation rather than a traditional defense contract.” (Luckey) Is this true (not enough companies applying "SV innovation model" to "defense problems")?

decebalus1 7y ago
Sadly, it is true. We aren't creating a dystopia fast enough. We definitely need to do better.
shadowmore 7y ago
The traditional model in the defense sector is: - Military or gov't produce exact specifications for something - Contractors bid to create that something - The end product ends up being the result of macro-management and even sometimes micro-management from the very top, which would be the equivalent of SV tech startups being instructed on what to build by Oracle and Microsoft But since the military and gov't are open to working with independent parties when said parties come to them with an offer, Anduril and similar companies have more freedom to develop tech as they see fit and then go and sell it to the military/gov't, and judging by this article, with considerable success.
- gnopgnip 7y ago
  How does palantir fit into this
  - ganoushoreilly 7y ago
    They sort of started out solving an internal problem and then took that domain knowledge to build their platform. Their success early on relied on being able to put together a really good presentation. I would hardly look at their tech as being extremely cutting edge though, they're simply a package solution with a decent enough outcome with minimal competition in what SV would consider an "unsexy" industry. Getting a foot in the door with Govt. Contracting is probably the hardest and most expensive part. Most won't go through the hoops and it creates fewer competitors or alternatives (as OP alludes to).
- austincheney 7y ago
  The new defense model is the Air Forces Kessel Run project.
- rmah 7y ago
  While what you write is true in a way, but saying "military or gov't produce exact specifications for something" may be interpreted by some people involved in software development in the wrong way. I've worked on a couple DoD related projects long ago and they don't put out specifications as much as requirements. If anything, the requirements are annoying vague. They will ask for something like "a light truck that can carry at least 1 ton while overcoming vertical obstacles 1 meter high and climb 50% grades". Or "software to track and manage electrical usage of a base at the building and circuit level. It should includeoff-site historical data storage, an interface for reporting and the ability to transfer data with existing reporting systems." Obviously the real RFPs have a long, long set of requirements, often conflicting :-). Each vendor is responsible with coming up with their own approach to the stated problem, their own designs and all the rest. And while there is certainly far too much micro-management -- and a healthy does of mismanagement -- a naive read of the rules makes it clear that most of the bureaucratic rules were created with good intentions. That is, they were created to fix "bugs" in the procurement system, to reduce corruption, to try to reduce errors, etc. Sadly, as you implied, the mass of contract bidding rules is now literally inches thick when printed out (I know because I printed out one set of them from the GSA) and probably create more problems than it solves. Ah well, such is life.
consumer451 7y ago
A bit of a tangent, but how is the US/Mexico border a "defense" issue? The Mexican military is not planning an invasion. I am unaware of any Latin American terrorist groups threatening the USA. I am not trying to be pedantic here, but words are important. If the US/Mexico border is a defense issue, then it should be entirely militarized? Andruil would be most accurately described as a surveillance company, would it not?
- dpflan 7y ago
  I’m not aware of the details of the classification, but I guess that border security/awareness is always a defense issue in some way. But yes, it is a surveillance company from what I can tell.
- alkibiades 7y ago
  the cartel is one of the deadliest groups in the world. now throw in ms-13 etc.
  - pstuart 7y ago
    The cartel and ms-13 were creations of the US, so it's kind of a domestic issue.
    - alkibiades 7y ago
      oh yeah i forgot the US is responsible for everything.
      - pstuart 7y ago
        Not everything, but to deny its role in shaping the world is unreasonable. The War on Drugs is behind this mess. The cartel was born out of this, and MS-13 was a result of that, our "justice" system. This doesn't make cartel or MS-13 members innocents, but it's not like they came from a vacuum.
        7y ago
sjg007 7y ago
This is basically true but there are startups working on defense contracts (usually as subcontractors) ... Silicon Valley adds some cachet to the whole thing. The whole pitch is that traditional defense and government contractors are bloated, bid low, ramp up costs and deliver a subpar product (see the DMV as the referenced example #1) .. and that true innovation using off the shelf components can deliver results and value etc... It's messaging to catch the ear of politicians and/or decision makers as a way in and it's probably true in some cases. You do see big examples of cost overruns and failure to deliver.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jvanderbot 7y ago
In my experience in a corner of this field, I can say that's less true than you think (there are many more partners), but competition is still not quite strong enough.
siruncledrew 7y ago
Is the SV model really the most optimal model? Similar statements get brought up claiming SVmodel(old_thing) = better_thing, but without really going into _why_. It might as well just be giving an old thing the Midas touch.

by dpflan 7y ago

decebalus1 7y ago

Sadly, it is true. We aren't creating a dystopia fast enough. We definitely need to do better.

shadowmore 7y ago

The traditional model in the defense sector is: - Military or gov't produce exact specifications for something - Contractors bid to create that something - The end product ends up being the result of macro-management and even sometimes micro-management from the very top, which would be the equivalent of SV tech startups being instructed on what to build by Oracle and Microsoft But since the military and gov't are open to working with independent parties when said parties come to them with an offer, Anduril and similar companies have more freedom to develop tech as they see fit and then go and sell it to the military/gov't, and judging by this article, with considerable success.

gnopgnip 7y ago
How does palantir fit into this
- ganoushoreilly 7y ago
  They sort of started out solving an internal problem and then took that domain knowledge to build their platform. Their success early on relied on being able to put together a really good presentation. I would hardly look at their tech as being extremely cutting edge though, they're simply a package solution with a decent enough outcome with minimal competition in what SV would consider an "unsexy" industry. Getting a foot in the door with Govt. Contracting is probably the hardest and most expensive part. Most won't go through the hoops and it creates fewer competitors or alternatives (as OP alludes to).
austincheney 7y ago
The new defense model is the Air Forces Kessel Run project.
rmah 7y ago
While what you write is true in a way, but saying "military or gov't produce exact specifications for something" may be interpreted by some people involved in software development in the wrong way. I've worked on a couple DoD related projects long ago and they don't put out specifications as much as requirements. If anything, the requirements are annoying vague. They will ask for something like "a light truck that can carry at least 1 ton while overcoming vertical obstacles 1 meter high and climb 50% grades". Or "software to track and manage electrical usage of a base at the building and circuit level. It should includeoff-site historical data storage, an interface for reporting and the ability to transfer data with existing reporting systems." Obviously the real RFPs have a long, long set of requirements, often conflicting :-). Each vendor is responsible with coming up with their own approach to the stated problem, their own designs and all the rest. And while there is certainly far too much micro-management -- and a healthy does of mismanagement -- a naive read of the rules makes it clear that most of the bureaucratic rules were created with good intentions. That is, they were created to fix "bugs" in the procurement system, to reduce corruption, to try to reduce errors, etc. Sadly, as you implied, the mass of contract bidding rules is now literally inches thick when printed out (I know because I printed out one set of them from the GSA) and probably create more problems than it solves. Ah well, such is life.

consumer451 7y ago

A bit of a tangent, but how is the US/Mexico border a "defense" issue? The Mexican military is not planning an invasion. I am unaware of any Latin American terrorist groups threatening the USA. I am not trying to be pedantic here, but words are important. If the US/Mexico border is a defense issue, then it should be entirely militarized? Andruil would be most accurately described as a surveillance company, would it not?

dpflan 7y ago
I’m not aware of the details of the classification, but I guess that border security/awareness is always a defense issue in some way. But yes, it is a surveillance company from what I can tell.
alkibiades 7y ago
the cartel is one of the deadliest groups in the world. now throw in ms-13 etc.
- pstuart 7y ago
  The cartel and ms-13 were creations of the US, so it's kind of a domestic issue.
  - alkibiades 7y ago
    oh yeah i forgot the US is responsible for everything.
    - pstuart 7y ago
      Not everything, but to deny its role in shaping the world is unreasonable. The War on Drugs is behind this mess. The cartel was born out of this, and MS-13 was a result of that, our "justice" system. This doesn't make cartel or MS-13 members innocents, but it's not like they came from a vacuum.
      - 7y ago

sjg007 7y ago

This is basically true but there are startups working on defense contracts (usually as subcontractors) ... Silicon Valley adds some cachet to the whole thing. The whole pitch is that traditional defense and government contractors are bloated, bid low, ramp up costs and deliver a subpar product (see the DMV as the referenced example #1) .. and that true innovation using off the shelf components can deliver results and value etc... It's messaging to catch the ear of politicians and/or decision makers as a way in and it's probably true in some cases. You do see big examples of cost overruns and failure to deliver.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jvanderbot 7y ago

In my experience in a corner of this field, I can say that's less true than you think (there are many more partners), but competition is still not quite strong enough.

siruncledrew 7y ago

Is the SV model really the most optimal model? Similar statements get brought up claiming SVmodel(old_thing) = better_thing, but without really going into _why_. It might as well just be giving an old thing the Midas touch.