4 ms·

"i'm going to answer 3 every time because if i say 4 or 5 i am worried and anxious that you're going to fire me." Welcome to impostor syndrome!

benj111 7y ago
It's not just imposter syndrome. Theres reasonable concern that a company doesn't want to have to deal with illness/someone that cant hack it. I personally wouldn't want to make myself an outlier with this question, so I too would answer 3.
- chucksmash 7y ago
  I guess you could approach it that way. I definitely treat job interviews that way (e.g. try not to be negative about a previous employer, even if it is justified). If I were in a situation where I felt like I needed to approach interactions with my manager this way lest they try to screw me, I don't think I'd be interested in staying in that kind of environment. I guess some folks have overriding priorities where they are willing to endure antagonism and gotchas like that, but sheesh.
  - benj111 7y ago
    I wouldn't say it's antagonism or anything like that, just as you aren't antagonistic towards the gear in your alarm clock. Nevertheless if the gear started playing up, you'd get rid of it without a 2nd thought. Obviously this is filtered through (emotional) humans, and job roles have differing fungibility, but the corporation doesn't really care about you except perhaps where it benefits itself.
    - chucksmash 7y ago
      I don't grant the validity of that analogy. People aren't gears of a clock and, when you say they are to a corporation, you are giving them a pass that is built on assumptions of an agency which they lack. Maybe legally you cannot pierce the veil, but ethically and morally a corporation is just other people making decisions and doing things. If someone is treated this way, a whole cadre of other >people< had to be the ones to enact it. My previous statement stands - maybe there are overriding reasons to do business with people like that for some, but to me that's a hard pass. If you can't trust somebody to even be a decent human being, what can you trust them with?
hayksaakian 7y ago
Good point. One way I could try to pre empt this is to say: "nobody was ever fired for answering 4 or 5 to this question" But I'm not sure how effective that would be.
- hrktb 7y ago
  Another angle is to declare from the start wanting improve the situation whatever their stress level is, and ask what your efforts should be directed at. If they don't have much to complain about it will be low priority items, if they're in a 4-5 situation it will be a longer discussion. At least they might be more open to explain heavy stuff if they know you're there to solve them and not just analyse.
- PorterDuff 7y ago
  I'm afraid I wouldn't believe you. With rare exceptions, management wants to hear 'no problem' and that 'everything is fine'. The next thing to do is a PowerPoint chart for the 2nd level managers showing names and stress levels over time with trends.
  - jschwartzi 7y ago
    This seems appropriate when talking about optimizing stress levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZTvMYQSl_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZTvMYQSl_w
  - rmetzler 7y ago
    Companies loose more when people run into burnout and become sick or leave the company. If the company doesn’t care about your wellbeing, leave. Also you should leave when there is more middle management then people who do real work.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    > With rare exceptions, management wants to hear 'no problem' and that 'everything is fine'. This makes me so sad. As a manager (formerly an engineer), I want to hear about problems as soon as possible! I can help! It's my job to clear roadblocks, to help find interesting projects, to keep the team working well together for the long term. It doesn't do me, the engineer, the project, or the team any good to hide problems. Such a bummer when managers push for short term results over the long term health of the team.
lm28469 7y ago
That's why you should ask "From 1 to 5 except 3" and "from 1 to 10 except 7" because these values are "always" used as the default "I don't really care" answer.
- banachtarski 7y ago
  I mean, what if I'm actually totally fine though and in a good place.
proverbialbunny 7y ago
"What can we do to bring it down to a 2?" The number doesn't matter as much as doing anything one can to help. eg, imposter syndrome. It has a cure. But being okay bringing it up and asking for help is required steps. This doesn't have to be with a manager. It can be with a therapist. People care, and if they don't, is it worth working in an environment like that?
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
Holy crap this is so true. Anyone who's been on the receiving end of "wow, if you are so miserable here, maybe you'd be better off somewhere else" knows what I'm talking about :P. Being quite frustrated cuz work shenanigans makes shenanigan makers quite uncomfortable.

benj111 7y ago

It's not just imposter syndrome. Theres reasonable concern that a company doesn't want to have to deal with illness/someone that cant hack it. I personally wouldn't want to make myself an outlier with this question, so I too would answer 3.

chucksmash 7y ago
I guess you could approach it that way. I definitely treat job interviews that way (e.g. try not to be negative about a previous employer, even if it is justified). If I were in a situation where I felt like I needed to approach interactions with my manager this way lest they try to screw me, I don't think I'd be interested in staying in that kind of environment. I guess some folks have overriding priorities where they are willing to endure antagonism and gotchas like that, but sheesh.
- benj111 7y ago
  I wouldn't say it's antagonism or anything like that, just as you aren't antagonistic towards the gear in your alarm clock. Nevertheless if the gear started playing up, you'd get rid of it without a 2nd thought. Obviously this is filtered through (emotional) humans, and job roles have differing fungibility, but the corporation doesn't really care about you except perhaps where it benefits itself.
  - chucksmash 7y ago
    I don't grant the validity of that analogy. People aren't gears of a clock and, when you say they are to a corporation, you are giving them a pass that is built on assumptions of an agency which they lack. Maybe legally you cannot pierce the veil, but ethically and morally a corporation is just other people making decisions and doing things. If someone is treated this way, a whole cadre of other >people< had to be the ones to enact it. My previous statement stands - maybe there are overriding reasons to do business with people like that for some, but to me that's a hard pass. If you can't trust somebody to even be a decent human being, what can you trust them with?

hayksaakian 7y ago

Good point. One way I could try to pre empt this is to say: "nobody was ever fired for answering 4 or 5 to this question" But I'm not sure how effective that would be.

hrktb 7y ago
Another angle is to declare from the start wanting improve the situation whatever their stress level is, and ask what your efforts should be directed at. If they don't have much to complain about it will be low priority items, if they're in a 4-5 situation it will be a longer discussion. At least they might be more open to explain heavy stuff if they know you're there to solve them and not just analyse.
PorterDuff 7y ago
I'm afraid I wouldn't believe you. With rare exceptions, management wants to hear 'no problem' and that 'everything is fine'. The next thing to do is a PowerPoint chart for the 2nd level managers showing names and stress levels over time with trends.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  This seems appropriate when talking about optimizing stress levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZTvMYQSl_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZTvMYQSl_w
- rmetzler 7y ago
  Companies loose more when people run into burnout and become sick or leave the company. If the company doesn’t care about your wellbeing, leave. Also you should leave when there is more middle management then people who do real work.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > With rare exceptions, management wants to hear 'no problem' and that 'everything is fine'. This makes me so sad. As a manager (formerly an engineer), I want to hear about problems as soon as possible! I can help! It's my job to clear roadblocks, to help find interesting projects, to keep the team working well together for the long term. It doesn't do me, the engineer, the project, or the team any good to hide problems. Such a bummer when managers push for short term results over the long term health of the team.

lm28469 7y ago

That's why you should ask "From 1 to 5 except 3" and "from 1 to 10 except 7" because these values are "always" used as the default "I don't really care" answer.

banachtarski 7y ago
I mean, what if I'm actually totally fine though and in a good place.

proverbialbunny 7y ago

"What can we do to bring it down to a 2?" The number doesn't matter as much as doing anything one can to help. eg, imposter syndrome. It has a cure. But being okay bringing it up and asking for help is required steps. This doesn't have to be with a manager. It can be with a therapist. People care, and if they don't, is it worth working in an environment like that?

PopeDotNinja 7y ago

Holy crap this is so true. Anyone who's been on the receiving end of "wow, if you are so miserable here, maybe you'd be better off somewhere else" knows what I'm talking about :P. Being quite frustrated cuz work shenanigans makes shenanigan makers quite uncomfortable.