4 ms·

I have a few questions: - Where does the money for UBI come from? - How do you propose to deal with the sudden spike in rent prices that's almost exactly the

I have a few questions: - Where does the money for UBI come from? - How do you propose to deal with the sudden spike in rent prices that's almost exactly the UBI amount? - What do you do when welfare faring becomes socially acceptable?

zwkrt 7y ago
Welfaring should be socially acceptable. Why should people have no choice other than to work?
- krapp 7y ago
  Welfare would be more socially acceptable in the US if it weren't culturally associated with non-white populations and a creeping "socialist agenda."
- tomschlick 7y ago
  Because generally taking money from others which is meant to be for people on hard times, and giving nothing back in return is looked down upon. As it should be.
  - zwkrt 7y ago
    But all these sentiments are wrapped up in the way things are now. Why is welfare only meant for people who have fallen on hard times? I would think that working at McDonalds is a kind of vindictive welfare for people who have fallen on hard times, and UBI is a lot more humanitarian than making someone’s life a living hell because a large company has convinced us their employees aren’t indentured servants.
    - tomschlick 7y ago
      > Why is welfare only meant for people who have fallen on hard times? Because not making enough to support yourself is hard times. You should be actively working to get out of that. Go to school, get a better job, get off welfare. There are tens of thousands of jobs that pay very very well (welding, plumbing, construction, programming, etc). They are begging for people to apply.
- cheeseomlit 7y ago
  Someone has to work for society to function. And you're taking those people's money, often against their will, and giving it to people who don't want to work. You see nothing wrong with that?
dls2016 7y ago
> What do you do when welfare faring becomes socially acceptable? Isn't that one of the promises of increased automation? Feature, not a bug.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Where does the money for UBI come from? Taxes. > How do you propose to deal with the sudden spike in rent prices that's almost exactly the UBI amount? Rent control. > What do you do when welfare faring becomes socially acceptable Celebrate the reduction in pointless stress and the associated social harms from no longer stigmatizing those with no other choice, while watching more of those who can do more actually doing so as human desires remain unlimited and UBI, compared to existing means-tested welfare, reduces the disincentive to putting effort in to earning additional income.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  > Rent control. Rent control is terrible. Even if it would prevent rents from increasing for existing tenants, that doesn't help anyone who doesn't have a rent controlled apartment from before the rents went up. Nor anyone who is looking to buy a home if it causes housing prices to go up. Rent control also discourages home ownership in general because you don't buy if price controls are making it cheaper to rent. The true answer is this. If people having more money would only cause all of it to go to landlords, that is a dysfunction in the housing market, not the UBI. In a functioning housing market, more demand should primarily result in more construction, not higher prices. If that isn't the case then it has nothing to do with a UBI -- it would also be true if people had more money due to rising wages, or a reduction in taxes or interest rates or healthcare costs. "What if every time people get more money it all goes to landlords" is a housing problem, not a UBI problem.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Rent control is terrible. Rent control usually requires other interventions (that are usually not undertaken) to be net desirable, but those other interventions are not directly relevant to the problem posed. > In a functioning housing market, more demand should primarily result in more construction, not higher prices. Many housing markets are not “functioning”, and while many of the causes for that are policy related in many cases there are natural constraints as well. Any adoption of UBI in the real world is going to need mechanisms adopted that address this in affected markets (which may be more limited in scope than the whole subject area of UBI.). > "What if every time people get more money it all goes to landlords" is a housing problem, not a UBI problem. It's a housing problem that t frustrates the purpose of UBI wherever it exists, making it a UBI problem, as well.

zwkrt 7y ago

Welfaring should be socially acceptable. Why should people have no choice other than to work?

krapp 7y ago
Welfare would be more socially acceptable in the US if it weren't culturally associated with non-white populations and a creeping "socialist agenda."
tomschlick 7y ago
Because generally taking money from others which is meant to be for people on hard times, and giving nothing back in return is looked down upon. As it should be.
- zwkrt 7y ago
  But all these sentiments are wrapped up in the way things are now. Why is welfare only meant for people who have fallen on hard times? I would think that working at McDonalds is a kind of vindictive welfare for people who have fallen on hard times, and UBI is a lot more humanitarian than making someone’s life a living hell because a large company has convinced us their employees aren’t indentured servants.
  - tomschlick 7y ago
    > Why is welfare only meant for people who have fallen on hard times? Because not making enough to support yourself is hard times. You should be actively working to get out of that. Go to school, get a better job, get off welfare. There are tens of thousands of jobs that pay very very well (welding, plumbing, construction, programming, etc). They are begging for people to apply.
cheeseomlit 7y ago
Someone has to work for society to function. And you're taking those people's money, often against their will, and giving it to people who don't want to work. You see nothing wrong with that?

dls2016 7y ago

> What do you do when welfare faring becomes socially acceptable? Isn't that one of the promises of increased automation? Feature, not a bug.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Where does the money for UBI come from? Taxes. > How do you propose to deal with the sudden spike in rent prices that's almost exactly the UBI amount? Rent control. > What do you do when welfare faring becomes socially acceptable Celebrate the reduction in pointless stress and the associated social harms from no longer stigmatizing those with no other choice, while watching more of those who can do more actually doing so as human desires remain unlimited and UBI, compared to existing means-tested welfare, reduces the disincentive to putting effort in to earning additional income.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago
> Rent control. Rent control is terrible. Even if it would prevent rents from increasing for existing tenants, that doesn't help anyone who doesn't have a rent controlled apartment from before the rents went up. Nor anyone who is looking to buy a home if it causes housing prices to go up. Rent control also discourages home ownership in general because you don't buy if price controls are making it cheaper to rent. The true answer is this. If people having more money would only cause all of it to go to landlords, that is a dysfunction in the housing market, not the UBI. In a functioning housing market, more demand should primarily result in more construction, not higher prices. If that isn't the case then it has nothing to do with a UBI -- it would also be true if people had more money due to rising wages, or a reduction in taxes or interest rates or healthcare costs. "What if every time people get more money it all goes to landlords" is a housing problem, not a UBI problem.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Rent control is terrible. Rent control usually requires other interventions (that are usually not undertaken) to be net desirable, but those other interventions are not directly relevant to the problem posed. > In a functioning housing market, more demand should primarily result in more construction, not higher prices. Many housing markets are not “functioning”, and while many of the causes for that are policy related in many cases there are natural constraints as well. Any adoption of UBI in the real world is going to need mechanisms adopted that address this in affected markets (which may be more limited in scope than the whole subject area of UBI.). > "What if every time people get more money it all goes to landlords" is a housing problem, not a UBI problem. It's a housing problem that t frustrates the purpose of UBI wherever it exists, making it a UBI problem, as well.