6 ms·

Another way would be to charge a modest lottery entrance fee and limit the number of winners to a sensible quota.

by wellactually 7y ago

asdkhadsj 7y ago
Scalpers in that market would be intense haha. Legal or not, people would find a way to make market prices
- yoz-y 7y ago
  This is why tickets have to be nominative and identity checking enforced.
brainwad 7y ago
Rationing is not a very fair way to distribute goods or services to people. Some people may value it just enough to pay the entry fee, while others might value it a lot more, but now they have the same chances of receiving it. If you prohibit people from on-selling their tickets, then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery.
- wellactually 7y ago
  It's not a perfect solution, granted, but it's less likely to result in implicit selection of only the wealthiest people.
  - dymk 7y ago
    Why is that a problem? Plenty of resources are allocated to meet supply and demand. Is traveling to specific locations inherently different?
    - wellactually 7y ago
      It depends on the values of the host society. They may want to promote democratic access to their country.
      - dymk 7y ago
        What does "democratic access to their country" even mean? The tourists visiting their country don't vote, so you don't mean literally. And any random rationing system you put in place will be inherently unfair in some dimension.
        m4rtink 7y ago
        The work "democratic" does not always directly relate to governing a country, but also making something accessible to all without unnecessary limitations - similar to the right to vote.
        ilammy 7y ago
        > similar to the right to vote Do I as non-citizen have a right to vote in whatever country I want, just because I have an opinion on the matter being voted? Access to citizenship is also limited by descent, wealth, or your conscientiousness. It is also ‘unfair’ if you interpret this word as ‘not instantly accessible to anyone who expresses interest’.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > Rationing is not a very fair way to distribute goods or services to people. So? No one said life was fair. There is no human-right to vacation in a given destination. I have to apply for lottery hunts for various game animal in my state. It's just a means of controlling scarce resource. > then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery. Good! Better be sure you wish to take part.
- atq2119 7y ago
  This kind of argument only works if everybody has the same amount of money (or other tokens) to spend. In the real world, market prices for this kind of thing simply select for rich people, not for who values the experience the most.
  - dymk 7y ago
    The value of something (especially a luxury like travel) is literally how much you'd be willing to spend on it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - atq2119 7y ago
      "Value" is an extremely overloaded word. Even within the narrow universe of money, economics, and finance, there are many different notions of value (e.g. market value, book value, replacement value). More broadly, what most people intuitively understand as value is independent of money and hard to quantify, but that doesn't make it less important. I do appreciate that people want to make something as important as value quantifiable, but like all measurements there are pitfalls, and I merely pointed out a rather important pitfall when attempting to measure value using money.
- magashna 7y ago
  But if you lock it down by pricing out average travelers, that's not fair either.
- Spooks 7y ago
  For this point: "If you prohibit people from on-selling their tickets, then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery." You could just have a return program. 30 days out it is free, 10 days out and you pay a small percentage but get your money back. You don't need to rely on selling tickets to others to get your money back
nitwit005 7y ago
Aside from the fairly large costs involved in running multiple large international lotteries, you'd have to build checkpoints around massive areas, stop people from buying tickets off of the winners somehow, deal with the corruption issues, and other exciting unintended side effects. All because a tax on a luxury (which tourism certainly is), wasn't fair enough.
m4rtink 7y ago
Actually, lottery is how they do it for various exclusive/special destinations & tours in Japan and it seem to be working in their case. This is used for rides on the Yamanashi maglev test tracks, tours to the Kurobe gorge railway upper track and other places with inherently limtted capacity.

Another way would be to charge a modest lottery entrance fee and limit the number of winners to a sensible quota.

asdkhadsj 7y ago

Scalpers in that market would be intense haha. Legal or not, people would find a way to make market prices

yoz-y 7y ago
This is why tickets have to be nominative and identity checking enforced.

brainwad 7y ago

Rationing is not a very fair way to distribute goods or services to people. Some people may value it just enough to pay the entry fee, while others might value it a lot more, but now they have the same chances of receiving it. If you prohibit people from on-selling their tickets, then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery.

wellactually 7y ago
It's not a perfect solution, granted, but it's less likely to result in implicit selection of only the wealthiest people.
- dymk 7y ago
  Why is that a problem? Plenty of resources are allocated to meet supply and demand. Is traveling to specific locations inherently different?
  - wellactually 7y ago
    It depends on the values of the host society. They may want to promote democratic access to their country.
    - dymk 7y ago
      What does "democratic access to their country" even mean? The tourists visiting their country don't vote, so you don't mean literally. And any random rationing system you put in place will be inherently unfair in some dimension.
      - m4rtink 7y ago
        The work "democratic" does not always directly relate to governing a country, but also making something accessible to all without unnecessary limitations - similar to the right to vote.
        ilammy 7y ago
        > similar to the right to vote Do I as non-citizen have a right to vote in whatever country I want, just because I have an opinion on the matter being voted? Access to citizenship is also limited by descent, wealth, or your conscientiousness. It is also ‘unfair’ if you interpret this word as ‘not instantly accessible to anyone who expresses interest’.
mieseratte 7y ago
> Rationing is not a very fair way to distribute goods or services to people. So? No one said life was fair. There is no human-right to vacation in a given destination. I have to apply for lottery hunts for various game animal in my state. It's just a means of controlling scarce resource. > then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery. Good! Better be sure you wish to take part.
atq2119 7y ago
This kind of argument only works if everybody has the same amount of money (or other tokens) to spend. In the real world, market prices for this kind of thing simply select for rich people, not for who values the experience the most.
- dymk 7y ago
  The value of something (especially a luxury like travel) is literally how much you'd be willing to spend on it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - atq2119 7y ago
    "Value" is an extremely overloaded word. Even within the narrow universe of money, economics, and finance, there are many different notions of value (e.g. market value, book value, replacement value). More broadly, what most people intuitively understand as value is independent of money and hard to quantify, but that doesn't make it less important. I do appreciate that people want to make something as important as value quantifiable, but like all measurements there are pitfalls, and I merely pointed out a rather important pitfall when attempting to measure value using money.
magashna 7y ago
But if you lock it down by pricing out average travelers, that's not fair either.
Spooks 7y ago
For this point: "If you prohibit people from on-selling their tickets, then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery." You could just have a return program. 30 days out it is free, 10 days out and you pay a small percentage but get your money back. You don't need to rely on selling tickets to others to get your money back

nitwit005 7y ago

Aside from the fairly large costs involved in running multiple large international lotteries, you'd have to build checkpoints around massive areas, stop people from buying tickets off of the winners somehow, deal with the corruption issues, and other exciting unintended side effects. All because a tax on a luxury (which tourism certainly is), wasn't fair enough.

m4rtink 7y ago

Actually, lottery is how they do it for various exclusive/special destinations & tours in Japan and it seem to be working in their case. This is used for rides on the Yamanashi maglev test tracks, tours to the Kurobe gorge railway upper track and other places with inherently limtted capacity.