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> Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonath

by 2rsf 7y ago

> Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

yasp 7y ago
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2016-11-02/numec-affair-did-highly-enriched-uranium-us-aid-israels-nuclear-weapons-program https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2016-1...
ceejayoz 7y ago
In fairness, Israel claims they learned a lesson from that incident and implemented the policy you're quoting as a result. edit: Some weird downvotes here. I'm not saying I believe they don't actually spy, but they have made that promise: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/israel-condemns-us-spying-nsa-edward-snowden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/israel-condemn... > Since Pollard's conviction, Israel has promised not to spy on the US. Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel does not spy on the US president or defence secretary. "I think we should expect the same relations from the US," Steinitz said.
- yasp 7y ago
  "Not to spy on the US" does not preclude "spying in the US". Also, what of spying on US citizens? And also, what good are promises from intelligence agencies, for whom lying is an essential part of the craft, and for which repercussions are nil?
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  > Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel does not spy on the US president or defence secretary OK so they don't spy on 2 very specific persons, what about the rest of the country? Plus trusting anything what Mosad says is like trusting Israelis that they don't have nuclear bombs and don't bomb their neighbors from obtaining the same... doesn't make any sense at all
- cbzbc 7y ago
  Except that every few years you still get stories like this in the press: https://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757 https://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757 and then usually after a few days of embarrassed silence they go away.
- ghani 7y ago
  > "In another top-secret document seen by the Guardian, dated 2008, a senior NSA official points out that Israel aggressively spies on the US. "On the one hand, the Israelis are extraordinarily good Sigint partners for us, but on the other, they target us to learn our positions on Middle East problems," the official says. "A NIE [National Intelligence Estimate] ranked them as the third most aggressive intelligence service against the US." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...
kilroy123 7y ago
Lol I find that extremely hard to believe. I would bet every dollar I had that we (the US) do spy on Israeli soil.
- 2rsf 7y ago
  https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4747949,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4747949,00.html
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  Last line of the article: > As for Israel’s recent surveillance of the White House, one of the former senior U.S. intelligence officials acknowledged it raised security concerns but joked, “On the other hand, guess what we do in Tel Aviv?”
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    Interesting that the quote mentions Tel Aviv and not Jerusalem.
    - yasp 7y ago
      Why is that interesting?
      - lostlogin 7y ago
        Where is the capital? That sound more sarcastic than I mean it, but the centre of administration is clearly Tel Aviv.
  - everybodyknows 7y ago
    All governments spy on all other governments. The only differences in spying policies are: 1. Effort expended, money in particular. 2. Risk tolerance, toward exposure and blowback. 3. Competence of execution. #3 is a function of the spy org, #1 and #2 are functions of pairwise relations between the particular governments. Even the closest of allies spy on each other. We don't hear about it much, because risk tolerance #2 in such efforts is more wisely kept very low.
waffle_ss 7y ago
Since we’re still thinking of 9/11, how about the Mossad agents celebrating and high fiving as the twin towers burned in the background? https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-l...
pnongrata 7y ago
Israel espionage? That's ludicrous. https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epstein-orwellian-nightmare/261692/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epst...
- amitport 7y ago
  Former CIA and Mossad workers working in the highly (and badly) regulated private sector is not "Israel espionage" on the US government. Edit: Why the down vote?
  - pnongrata 7y ago
    Private companies and Israel defense and intelligence agencies have deep ties, and the article shows. For instance: > Mossad Director Yossi Cohen told the paper that the Mossad’s partnership with civilian companies in Israel is “excellent” and that the agency will continue to strengthen those ties.
    - amitport 7y ago
      People have jobs, learn, keep ties, and move on to do what they know elsewhere. Talking about private sector, private contractor doing shaded activities for US clients is not the same as "Israel espionage". Israel is a country, does the article suggest evidence that Israel (or someone on its behalf) have done any espionage in US? Qouting your comment from another thread: "The article is presenting a claim [you are, Israel espionage is not claimed in the article] which needs to be backed by sound evidence, like research papers [or any other evidence]. That's where the burden of proof lies, not on those who reject the claim on face value." Https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20886710
      - pnongrata 7y ago
        > does the article suggest evidence that Israel (or someone on its behalf) have done any espionage in US? Yes it does, many times. I'd also suggest you read the series on Epstein in which MintPress unravels a deep web of crooked connections between Intelligence and wealthy individiuals. They also go through the Promis software scandal (backdoor installed by Israeli intelligence).

by 2rsf 7y ago

> Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

yasp 7y ago

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2016-11-02/numec-affair-did-highly-enriched-uranium-us-aid-israels-nuclear-weapons-program https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2016-1...

ceejayoz 7y ago

In fairness, Israel claims they learned a lesson from that incident and implemented the policy you're quoting as a result. edit: Some weird downvotes here. I'm not saying I believe they don't actually spy, but they have made that promise: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/israel-condemns-us-spying-nsa-edward-snowden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/israel-condemn... > Since Pollard's conviction, Israel has promised not to spy on the US. Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel does not spy on the US president or defence secretary. "I think we should expect the same relations from the US," Steinitz said.

yasp 7y ago
"Not to spy on the US" does not preclude "spying in the US". Also, what of spying on US citizens? And also, what good are promises from intelligence agencies, for whom lying is an essential part of the craft, and for which repercussions are nil?
saiya-jin 7y ago
> Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel does not spy on the US president or defence secretary OK so they don't spy on 2 very specific persons, what about the rest of the country? Plus trusting anything what Mosad says is like trusting Israelis that they don't have nuclear bombs and don't bomb their neighbors from obtaining the same... doesn't make any sense at all
cbzbc 7y ago
Except that every few years you still get stories like this in the press: https://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757 https://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757 and then usually after a few days of embarrassed silence they go away.
ghani 7y ago
> "In another top-secret document seen by the Guardian, dated 2008, a senior NSA official points out that Israel aggressively spies on the US. "On the one hand, the Israelis are extraordinarily good Sigint partners for us, but on the other, they target us to learn our positions on Middle East problems," the official says. "A NIE [National Intelligence Estimate] ranked them as the third most aggressive intelligence service against the US." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...

kilroy123 7y ago

Lol I find that extremely hard to believe. I would bet every dollar I had that we (the US) do spy on Israeli soil.

2rsf 7y ago
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4747949,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4747949,00.html
tonyarkles 7y ago
Last line of the article: > As for Israel’s recent surveillance of the White House, one of the former senior U.S. intelligence officials acknowledged it raised security concerns but joked, “On the other hand, guess what we do in Tel Aviv?”
- lostlogin 7y ago
  Interesting that the quote mentions Tel Aviv and not Jerusalem.
  - yasp 7y ago
    Why is that interesting?
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      Where is the capital? That sound more sarcastic than I mean it, but the centre of administration is clearly Tel Aviv.
- everybodyknows 7y ago
  All governments spy on all other governments. The only differences in spying policies are: 1. Effort expended, money in particular. 2. Risk tolerance, toward exposure and blowback. 3. Competence of execution. #3 is a function of the spy org, #1 and #2 are functions of pairwise relations between the particular governments. Even the closest of allies spy on each other. We don't hear about it much, because risk tolerance #2 in such efforts is more wisely kept very low.

waffle_ss 7y ago

Since we’re still thinking of 9/11, how about the Mossad agents celebrating and high fiving as the twin towers burned in the background? https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-l...

pnongrata 7y ago

Israel espionage? That's ludicrous. https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epstein-orwellian-nightmare/261692/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epst...

amitport 7y ago
Former CIA and Mossad workers working in the highly (and badly) regulated private sector is not "Israel espionage" on the US government. Edit: Why the down vote?
- pnongrata 7y ago
  Private companies and Israel defense and intelligence agencies have deep ties, and the article shows. For instance: > Mossad Director Yossi Cohen told the paper that the Mossad’s partnership with civilian companies in Israel is “excellent” and that the agency will continue to strengthen those ties.
  - amitport 7y ago
    People have jobs, learn, keep ties, and move on to do what they know elsewhere. Talking about private sector, private contractor doing shaded activities for US clients is not the same as "Israel espionage". Israel is a country, does the article suggest evidence that Israel (or someone on its behalf) have done any espionage in US? Qouting your comment from another thread: "The article is presenting a claim [you are, Israel espionage is not claimed in the article] which needs to be backed by sound evidence, like research papers [or any other evidence]. That's where the burden of proof lies, not on those who reject the claim on face value." Https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20886710
    - pnongrata 7y ago
      > does the article suggest evidence that Israel (or someone on its behalf) have done any espionage in US? Yes it does, many times. I'd also suggest you read the series on Epstein in which MintPress unravels a deep web of crooked connections between Intelligence and wealthy individiuals. They also go through the Promis software scandal (backdoor installed by Israeli intelligence).