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How do you think a society could functions without a minimal set of shared values? Stuff like "killing each other is not super nice" and similar? Aren't values

by simias 7y ago

How do you think a society could functions without a minimal set of shared values? Stuff like "killing each other is not super nice" and similar? Aren't values about "good" and "bad"? Unless you're talking from a purely nihilistic viewpoint which might be rational to some extent but not really productive. "Nothing matter, nothing is wrong, nothing is right, stuff just happens". Okay but where do we go from there?

moate 7y ago
Values are about personal preference. "Killing each other is not super nice" isn't a value in any real way due to the dilution words you add. Take the following thoughts: Killing people is a bad thing. During wars, soldiers kill people. Soldiers are virtuous people. Do you believe/know that someone could think they believe all 3 of these things? If yes, what are their values? Everything is situations. It's context. It's why philosophers play with so many variances of the trolley problem. Nothing is clean and easy, everyone is a hypocrite, nothing matters, stuff happens, and trying to rule a group by trying to worry about individual beliefs instead of aggregate beliefs shared among a majority (a slight difference from your statement that I took as "minimal set of shared values" which I assumed you meant applied to literally everyone). Point is once you get a group above a certain size, there's only ever going to be majority favored ideas, not universally shared.
mfer 7y ago
I agree that a society needs to have some shared values codified in laws. Things like not killing each other are great examples. But, are shared values the same as good and bad? We generally consider certain forms of lying to be bad but they are not illegal. And, not everyone agrees on those. So they aren't entirely shared. If we go down the rabbit hole of reason and logic on this it's not so simple.

by simias 7y ago

moate 7y ago

Values are about personal preference. "Killing each other is not super nice" isn't a value in any real way due to the dilution words you add. Take the following thoughts: Killing people is a bad thing. During wars, soldiers kill people. Soldiers are virtuous people. Do you believe/know that someone could think they believe all 3 of these things? If yes, what are their values? Everything is situations. It's context. It's why philosophers play with so many variances of the trolley problem. Nothing is clean and easy, everyone is a hypocrite, nothing matters, stuff happens, and trying to rule a group by trying to worry about individual beliefs instead of aggregate beliefs shared among a majority (a slight difference from your statement that I took as "minimal set of shared values" which I assumed you meant applied to literally everyone). Point is once you get a group above a certain size, there's only ever going to be majority favored ideas, not universally shared.

mfer 7y ago

I agree that a society needs to have some shared values codified in laws. Things like not killing each other are great examples. But, are shared values the same as good and bad? We generally consider certain forms of lying to be bad but they are not illegal. And, not everyone agrees on those. So they aren't entirely shared. If we go down the rabbit hole of reason and logic on this it's not so simple.