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Or bike it. Also healthy and infrastructure and laws are there. People with disabilities cannot use these scooters anyway, they need something different.

Slimbo 7y ago
I cycle a lot, but bikes are a pain in that you need somewhere to park them, something to secure them to prevent them getting robbed, they're horrid in the rain and you have to ride on the road or a bike path. I can see the attraction for scooters that avoid these problems, but for the length of journey they're good for, why not just walk?
- ses1984 7y ago
  How do scooters solve any of these problems? Do you not have to park scooters? Do they not suck in the rain? Do they not need some surface to ride on?
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    The great thing about the scooter is that it isn't mine, so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen. That's it. That's the killer feature.
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      And a rental bike does not have this feature?
      - phil248 7y ago
        Sort of, but most bike rental places will charge you a fairly hefty fee (some places I know charge around $200-$300). With the scooters, you just have to find a different scooter and continue about your business.
        ses1984 7y ago
        That's not a problem inherent in the bike or scooter.
    - bsder 7y ago
      > The great thing about the scooter is that it isn't mine, so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen. Except that the scooter companies can't figure this out either and are moving to a monthly rental to put the burden back on you. > In April, it announced the launch of a more traditional rental program in San Francisco and Barcelona, in which users could pay $25 per month to rent a Xiaomi m365 from the company rather than paying per ride. The gig economy is about externalizing all the costs, ya'know.
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    For rentable escooters, the consumer doesn't really have to worry about them being stolen. And they're easier to park than bikes.
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      By park you actually mean litter everywhere, as there are very few designated parking places, much fewer than for bicycles.
      - Notorious_BLT 7y ago
        That's a city planning problem, though. Designated small-vehicle parking that isn't explicitly for bikes seems like a good idea to have. No reason bike storage should be bike-exclusive
        beatgammit 7y ago
        The scooter companies are free to fund installation. Honestly, I think scooter companies should be fined for any scooters left in a place that causes problems. It's essentially litter, so it should be treated as such. Scooter companies should be providing some means of locking them up securely and expect their users to use them.
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        I doubt there were many parking lots when cars were new, too.
    - ses1984 7y ago
      What makes a rentable scooter easier to park than a rentable bike?
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Scooters are smaller.
      - 7y ago
- verytrivial 7y ago
  I think it simply comes down to average speed. Have a click around https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/ https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/ and assume scooters are more-or-less the speed of cycles.
- mason55 7y ago
  > but for the length of journey they're good for, why not just walk? I use scooters occasionally and there is a sweet spot in the 30-60 minute walk range. A 30 minute walk turns into a ~6 minute scooter ride (assuming 3mph walking and 13mph scooter). If you're talking about roundtrip then you're saving over 45 minutes by scootering. Sure, if it's a lazy Saturday and I'm just moseying around then I'll walk. But if I'm running to the gym and back after work then it's worth it to me to save those 45 minutes.
JoshTriplett 7y ago
> People with disabilities cannot use these scooters anyway You are making broad assumptions about what people with disabilities need or want. Disabled does not always mean "wheelchair", and not every disability is visible to you, nor does it need to be. Some disabilities, or other medical conditions, make walking a few blocks (let alone miles) prohibitive. Some disabilities mean taking the elevator rather than the stairs. Some disabilities make a bicycle unusable.
deleted 7y ago
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mikestew 7y ago
Also healthy... Man, I'm just tryin' to get to work. Why does every alternative to plopping my ass in a giant wheelchair have to be "healthy"? What, "not a car" isn't good enough? infrastructure and laws are there. You might be surprised to find that electric scooters work just as well as bicycles on that infrastructure. Laws? Meh, were my municipality backward (and they are not) it wouldn't necessarily mean I'd pay much attention to their directives until they change.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
People with disabilities can't use stairs, should we stop building those too? It's okay to support a mode that only most of the population can use. There are still other modes, just like with stairs and elevators/ramps.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  That's explicitly not what I meant. I meant that disabled people cannot use either. The scooters solve no problems bicycles already do not, not exactly even portability yet. They create problems of litter on sidewalks, trash generation due to damage (where rental bikes are typically fixable if damaged) and issues of safety as they're much less visible and people tend to not use the bell...
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    If scooters create problems because they're left out, fine the scooter companies for littering. That will cut into their profits, so they'll either innovate ways to make them less of a nuisance or stop doing business. Banning them makes little sense. Cities can help by increasing availability of bike racks, and scooter companies can help by providing locks on those racks to customers.
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    > That's explicitly not what I meant. I meant that disabled people cannot use either. So what was the point of bringing it up then? > The scooters solve no problems bicycles already do not Sure they do. Part of the issue with bikes is a chicken and egg problem where politicians are hesitant to invest money into bike infra, because not enough people ride. And many people don't ride because of bad bike infra. Many, perhaps most of the people riding escooters don't ride their own bike around, or wouldn't ride a rentable ebike, for whatever reason. That's why the scooters got uptake much more rapidly than rentable ebikes. So once you have more people on modes that fit bike infrastructure, because of, say, the ease of use and accessibility of electric scooters, it becomes easier to fight for that bike infrastructure.
  - deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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Robotbeat 7y ago
It's likely that more people with disabilities can use these scooters than can use bikes. Additionally, people with disabilities pioneered personal electric transportation long before Bird or Lime. The form factor is different, but the technology is essentially the same. Electric wheelchair tech is highly enabling for people with disabilities.

Slimbo 7y ago

I cycle a lot, but bikes are a pain in that you need somewhere to park them, something to secure them to prevent them getting robbed, they're horrid in the rain and you have to ride on the road or a bike path. I can see the attraction for scooters that avoid these problems, but for the length of journey they're good for, why not just walk?

ses1984 7y ago
How do scooters solve any of these problems? Do you not have to park scooters? Do they not suck in the rain? Do they not need some surface to ride on?
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  The great thing about the scooter is that it isn't mine, so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen. That's it. That's the killer feature.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    And a rental bike does not have this feature?
    - phil248 7y ago
      Sort of, but most bike rental places will charge you a fairly hefty fee (some places I know charge around $200-$300). With the scooters, you just have to find a different scooter and continue about your business.
      - ses1984 7y ago
        That's not a problem inherent in the bike or scooter.
  - bsder 7y ago
    > The great thing about the scooter is that it isn't mine, so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen. Except that the scooter companies can't figure this out either and are moving to a monthly rental to put the burden back on you. > In April, it announced the launch of a more traditional rental program in San Francisco and Barcelona, in which users could pay $25 per month to rent a Xiaomi m365 from the company rather than paying per ride. The gig economy is about externalizing all the costs, ya'know.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  For rentable escooters, the consumer doesn't really have to worry about them being stolen. And they're easier to park than bikes.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    By park you actually mean litter everywhere, as there are very few designated parking places, much fewer than for bicycles.
    - Notorious_BLT 7y ago
      That's a city planning problem, though. Designated small-vehicle parking that isn't explicitly for bikes seems like a good idea to have. No reason bike storage should be bike-exclusive
      - beatgammit 7y ago
        The scooter companies are free to fund installation. Honestly, I think scooter companies should be fined for any scooters left in a place that causes problems. It's essentially litter, so it should be treated as such. Scooter companies should be providing some means of locking them up securely and expect their users to use them.
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      I doubt there were many parking lots when cars were new, too.
  - ses1984 7y ago
    What makes a rentable scooter easier to park than a rentable bike?
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      Scooters are smaller.
    - 7y ago
verytrivial 7y ago
I think it simply comes down to average speed. Have a click around https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/ https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/ and assume scooters are more-or-less the speed of cycles.
mason55 7y ago
> but for the length of journey they're good for, why not just walk? I use scooters occasionally and there is a sweet spot in the 30-60 minute walk range. A 30 minute walk turns into a ~6 minute scooter ride (assuming 3mph walking and 13mph scooter). If you're talking about roundtrip then you're saving over 45 minutes by scootering. Sure, if it's a lazy Saturday and I'm just moseying around then I'll walk. But if I'm running to the gym and back after work then it's worth it to me to save those 45 minutes.

JoshTriplett 7y ago

> People with disabilities cannot use these scooters anyway You are making broad assumptions about what people with disabilities need or want. Disabled does not always mean "wheelchair", and not every disability is visible to you, nor does it need to be. Some disabilities, or other medical conditions, make walking a few blocks (let alone miles) prohibitive. Some disabilities mean taking the elevator rather than the stairs. Some disabilities make a bicycle unusable.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mikestew 7y ago

Also healthy... Man, I'm just tryin' to get to work. Why does every alternative to plopping my ass in a giant wheelchair have to be "healthy"? What, "not a car" isn't good enough? infrastructure and laws are there. You might be surprised to find that electric scooters work just as well as bicycles on that infrastructure. Laws? Meh, were my municipality backward (and they are not) it wouldn't necessarily mean I'd pay much attention to their directives until they change.

TulliusCicero 7y ago

People with disabilities can't use stairs, should we stop building those too? It's okay to support a mode that only most of the population can use. There are still other modes, just like with stairs and elevators/ramps.

AstralStorm 7y ago
That's explicitly not what I meant. I meant that disabled people cannot use either. The scooters solve no problems bicycles already do not, not exactly even portability yet. They create problems of litter on sidewalks, trash generation due to damage (where rental bikes are typically fixable if damaged) and issues of safety as they're much less visible and people tend to not use the bell...
- beatgammit 7y ago
  If scooters create problems because they're left out, fine the scooter companies for littering. That will cut into their profits, so they'll either innovate ways to make them less of a nuisance or stop doing business. Banning them makes little sense. Cities can help by increasing availability of bike racks, and scooter companies can help by providing locks on those racks to customers.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  > That's explicitly not what I meant. I meant that disabled people cannot use either. So what was the point of bringing it up then? > The scooters solve no problems bicycles already do not Sure they do. Part of the issue with bikes is a chicken and egg problem where politicians are hesitant to invest money into bike infra, because not enough people ride. And many people don't ride because of bad bike infra. Many, perhaps most of the people riding escooters don't ride their own bike around, or wouldn't ride a rentable ebike, for whatever reason. That's why the scooters got uptake much more rapidly than rentable ebikes. So once you have more people on modes that fit bike infrastructure, because of, say, the ease of use and accessibility of electric scooters, it becomes easier to fight for that bike infrastructure.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Robotbeat 7y ago

It's likely that more people with disabilities can use these scooters than can use bikes. Additionally, people with disabilities pioneered personal electric transportation long before Bird or Lime. The form factor is different, but the technology is essentially the same. Electric wheelchair tech is highly enabling for people with disabilities.