8 ms·

PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

159 points by davidcuddeback 16y ago

GooseFlyFox 16y ago
Sony is always willing to spread the love while I fully understand the desire and drive to reverse and break the security of closed platforms.. grandstanding about your success in a public way traceable to you seems really misguided... It would seem better to release and wait for the ashes to settle first no?
- heretoo 16y ago
  Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..
  - loire280 16y ago
    Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?
    - honeycrisp 16y ago
      It can't be both?
      - Manfred 16y ago
        Occam says, "noooo."
    - sp332 16y ago
      It's also about homebrew. I think PS3 homebrew games launched from the XMB and run under Game OS could be very cool.
    - terrym 16y ago
      Since it involved a group of people doing it, you can't really know what the true motivation behind it was -- but I think removing the otherOS functionality simultaneously gave the movement behind this 2 things: 1) Motivation, attention, and energy (more people hearing about their efforts, offering their help, more passionately) 2) An area to focus their energy on (jailbreaking, or restoring access to homebrew/otheros as a goal) Another thing to consider is that as far as I know, you should in theory be able to run the system at it's full capacity with the latest hack, whereas anything running on otheros was crippled by default.
    - arohner 16y ago
      The PS3 is now viable as a new host platform for XMBC (XBox Media Center). >Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? The Music and Movie industries continue to stay in business even in the face of piracy. Wake me up when PS3 pirating comes close to the level of Napster. I'm not justifying piracy, just saying that Sony should be more worried about their real competitors.
      - ellisd 16y ago
        "XMBC (XBox Media Center)" That was my first thought when I read the news of the self-signed code running. I seriously cannot stop reminiscing about the glory days of XBOX1 and XBMC bringing jaw dropping awesomeness to the living room. The PS3 media playback although working perfectly in most SD video using PS3 Media Server, the transcoded DNLA streaming crap for some reason cannot handle fast forwarding / rewind or scene selection. We're talking 1080p playing from a i7 Extreme workstation + gigabit network. XBMC with HD support and Samba access would most likely playback perfectly on a PS3 homebrew build. Guess it's time to fork git://xbmc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/xbmc/xbmc but I'd almost prefer to take a wait and see approach with Sony's first salvo against custom firmware users.
    - chopsueyar 16y ago
      My suggesting punishment is a possible motivation, you are vindicating Sony's position.
davidcuddeback 16y ago
Previous discussion when the root key was released: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2063058 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2063058
- heretoo 16y ago
  >>> In late December 2010, a hacking group called FAIL0VERFLOW discovered a way to access certain (but not all) levels of the PS3 System by circumventing the corresponding TPMs. Id. at ¶16; Bricker Decl. at ¶5, Exh. D. At that point, hackers were given the tools to run unauthorized and pirated software on the PS3 System <<< My understanding is that fail0verflow's exploit didn't enable piracy at all because metldr wasn't being exploited. Anyway, won't this go the way of iphone, where is was ruled that jailbreaking is legal? My hardware, my rules...
  - wipt 16y ago
    One can hope so. It's really dependent on how the DMCA is interpreted. I was wondering where this legal action was when I heard about the exploits. Shame on Congress for passing the DMCA to begin with. This exploit only furthers cryptography in practice (that is, this will be a lesson in crypto textbooks for generations to come).
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    They didn't have an exploit: they showed how to get the private keys to sign anything. Much more valuable (for legitimate uses (and piracy)) than geohot's posting of one individual key.
  - trotsky 16y ago
    Note that phone jail breaking was given a very narrow exemption by the Library of Congress through the terms of the DMCA. It doesn't establish any legal precedent here, and lobbying for such an exemption is a lengthy process. Morally they seem similar enough, sadly that's not the issue.
    - chopsueyar 16y ago
maeon3 16y ago
This notion of owning a piece of hardware without the legal right to take it apart worries me. Close that car hood citizen, there are secrets in there, don't make me taze you. erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19 R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17 n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1 K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
- sorghum 16y ago
  This bit in particular disturbs me: >> First, the PS3 System consists of a “protected computer” because it is used in interstate commerce (e.g., the Internet.) Second, without SCEA’s authorization, Defendants intentionally accessed certain levels of the PS3 Systems by circumventing SCEA’s TPMs in the PS3 Systems. Defendants’ access to such levels in the PS3 Systems is not authorized; to the contrary, the PlayStation Network Terms of Service and User Agreement (“PSN User Agreement”) prohibits the circumvention of security features in the PS3 System. It looks like there is a legal definition of a "protected computer" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_computer), but I can't imagine it was ever intended to apply to one's own computer. Furthermore, how is the PlayStation Network user agreement relevant here? You don't have to agree to anything to buy a PS3, only to use the optional PSN service.
  - pyre 16y ago
    It sounds like they are grasping for straws with that claim. I think that it's likely to get thrown out. If it doesn't get immediately tossed out, or at least defeated in court, then it would be time to worry.
  - allwein 16y ago
    They're also failing to grasp that "protected computer" is an instance attribute, and not a class attribute.
atomical 16y ago
Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  It's not a cut-and-dry matter of whether intellectual property "should be protected". I think most hackers expect some protection in the form of copyright. However, most hackers are also tinkerers and are disturbed that current IP law so heavily favors corporate interests, even to the extent where you cannot use something you rightfully own according to your own desires. Would you buy an oven if there was a big label that said "IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE THIS OVEN FOR BROWNIES; ALL BROWNIE BAKERS WILL BE PROSECUTED"? Do you think laws that allow that kind of thing are good? Remember, this isn't a rented oven, you bought the whole thing outright. Why should there be laws that allow hardware makers to say "THIS COMPUTER CAN ONLY RUN MOBILE OS 5.5; ALL USERS OF NON-MOBILE OS 5.5 WILL BE PROSECUTED"? What about (cooling it on the caps) "it is illegal to publish the words etched into the bottom of this oven. Do not read the words on the bottom of this oven"? Copyright was originated to make the creation of intellectual property economically worthwhile so that more intellectual content could be produced and distributed. I think we crossed that threshold a long time ago and now we've gone way overboard into the other extreme; our current laws actively discourage creativity, which is the exact opposite of their purpose. Why doesn't your post say, "It seems many companies don't believe that those that purchase their hardware have a right to use it according to their own dictates. If these companies don't believe in that, don't mass produce and sell your product to everyone!"? Surely massive distribution with no restriction on buyers is a horrible way to keep a secret.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    EULA's have nothing to do with copyright, it's plain contract law. If you and I are neighbors and we agree that you I will pay you 250$ a month to not park you car in front of my house (while you legally have a right to do so), should that not be allowed? If I am a shoe manufacturer with local retail outlets you and I agree that I will sell you my shoes for reselling overseas, but part of the agreement is that you won't sell them locally; should that be allowed? If you and I agree that I will sell you a device but you will only use it under certain circumstances, should that be allowed? I think the government has no business in private contracts in any of the above situations. Let people make their own agreements and then let the market decide. The only role the government has herein is to enforce contracts - what good are contracts when one party can decide retroactively that they don't like the terms anymore, and oh I don't want to cancel the contract, no I want to have my pie and eat it, too?
iwwr 16y ago
If you watched the CCC presentation on the PS3, you know these people are more interested in running their own software than breaking the console to play pirated games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbUVgxw1yWc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbUVgxw1yWc (30 seconds)
- ugh 16y ago
  Here is the whole presentation (45 min., three parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIlbmn-4A4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIlbmn-4A4&feature=mfu_i... Other formats here: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/Conference_Recordings http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/Conference_Recording...; slides and links here: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4087.en.html http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4087.en.h...
- zzygan 16y ago
  Although I dont agree with SECA, their point of view is that once the console can run "uncertified" software then its only a matter of time before the pirates have their day. I think that if Sony had just left the OtherOS option in the new consoles, and not removed the support from older ones and maybe improved it by allowing access to the GPU, then this would have taken a lot lot longer since there was no motivation for the hardcore guys
  - iwwr 16y ago
    They may have even lasted into the release PS4 and so benefit from nearly zero piracy through the product cycle.
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      OT, but I haven't seen any rumors of a new generation of consoles. This generation has lasted a lot longer than the previous, and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least another year or two out of them. The addition of the new motion controls (Kinect and PS Move, although I haven't heard really anything about the latter) make it seem even less likely that they'll push for a new console yet. Edit: I also wouldn't be surprised if these motion control addons are research for the next console generation. I've heard of people thinking of Kinect as the next generation of XBox somewhat, and it does kind of make some sense. I don't think we'll reach a stage where motion controls are integral to most games, because even in this generation with the SixAxis on the PS3, most all of the uses of it were one of gimmicks (Mirror's Edge: Use the SixAxis to balance, or just use a control stick. Uncharted: Use the SixAxis to adjust grenade arc...or again, just use a control stick. Ratchet and Clank: Use the SixAxis for two minigames).
makeramen 16y ago
engadget article says it's just a restraining order? unless things have changed since they published this post: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/sony-sues-geohot-fail0verflow-over-ps3-exploits/ http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/sony-sues-geohot-fail0ver...
redthrowaway 16y ago
From the court order: IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Hotz and his officers, employees, attorneys and representatives, and all other persons or entities in privity or acting in concert or participation with Defendant Hotz, be immediately temporarily restrained from: ...Offering to the public, posting online, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, distributing, providing, or otherwise trafficking in any circumvention technology, products, services, methods, codes, software tools, devices, component or part thereof... ...Providing links from any website to any other website selling, offering for sale, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, importing, exporting, offering to the public, distributing, providing, posting, or otherwise trafficking in any Circumvention Devices... And a whole lot more. Aside fromt the fact that it seems the corporate world still hasn't heard of the Streisand Effect, the language of this document is worrying. Clearly, the laws were written with commercial theft of IP and industrial espionage/reverse engineering in mind. The linguistic contortions seem to make it clear that the DMCA and CFAA were never meant to be used against hackers, but rather against counterfeiters. It's pretty disturbing that even the courts march lockstep with corporations in stretching the law to serve corporate ends. edit: As pointed out below, this is a proposed order, not one issued by a judge. Thus, please disregard the last bit about the courts marching in lockstep with corporate interests. I'm appending rather than editing so that the responses make sense.
- obsessive1 16y ago
  If I'm right though, that's only a proposed restraining order? Or do I have the wrong end of the stick?
  - redthrowaway 16y ago
    I think you're right. There's no signature from a judge at the bottom, which suggests this is something they're submitting to the court in the hopes of having it approved. IANAL, so I don't know how that would work.
    - repsilat 16y ago
      The "fill in the blanks" bits suggest that pretty strongly, too - > IT IS ORDERED that SCEA shall post a bond in the amount of $_______ as security...
vog 16y ago
It is interesting to see how fast this key spreads over the net. At the moment, a quick google search shows 26,700 results: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22C0+CE+FE+84+C2+27+F7+5B%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22C0+CE+FE+84+C2+27+F7+5B%22
- Raphael 16y ago
  Results counts on Google are wildly inaccurate.
  - lamnk 16y ago
    It's still a data point to take. How else do you propose to measure the popularity of one thing on internet (in a quick way) ?
hjkluydefgw 16y ago
----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ---- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------
hjkluydefgw 16y ago
----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ----- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------ ---- http://www.etradinglife.com http://www.etradinglife.com ------
christoph 16y ago
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/GeoHot/ http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/GeoHot/ Note to Sony lawyers: no doubt you're eager to rack up another billable hour by sending legal threats to me and my university. Before you go down that unhappy road, check out what happened the last time a large corporation tried to stop the mirroring of technical information here: The Gallery of CSS Descramblers. Have you learned anything in ten years? David S. Touretzky Research Professor of Computer Science Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213

159 points by davidcuddeback 16y ago

Sony is always willing to spread the love while I fully understand the desire and drive to reverse and break the security of closed platforms.. grandstanding about your success in a public way traceable to you seems really misguided... It would seem better to release and wait for the ashes to settle first no?

heretoo 16y ago
Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..
- loire280 16y ago
  Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?
  - honeycrisp 16y ago
    It can't be both?
    - Manfred 16y ago
      Occam says, "noooo."
  - sp332 16y ago
    It's also about homebrew. I think PS3 homebrew games launched from the XMB and run under Game OS could be very cool.
  - terrym 16y ago
    Since it involved a group of people doing it, you can't really know what the true motivation behind it was -- but I think removing the otherOS functionality simultaneously gave the movement behind this 2 things: 1) Motivation, attention, and energy (more people hearing about their efforts, offering their help, more passionately) 2) An area to focus their energy on (jailbreaking, or restoring access to homebrew/otheros as a goal) Another thing to consider is that as far as I know, you should in theory be able to run the system at it's full capacity with the latest hack, whereas anything running on otheros was crippled by default.
  - arohner 16y ago
    The PS3 is now viable as a new host platform for XMBC (XBox Media Center). >Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? The Music and Movie industries continue to stay in business even in the face of piracy. Wake me up when PS3 pirating comes close to the level of Napster. I'm not justifying piracy, just saying that Sony should be more worried about their real competitors.
    - ellisd 16y ago
      "XMBC (XBox Media Center)" That was my first thought when I read the news of the self-signed code running. I seriously cannot stop reminiscing about the glory days of XBOX1 and XBMC bringing jaw dropping awesomeness to the living room. The PS3 media playback although working perfectly in most SD video using PS3 Media Server, the transcoded DNLA streaming crap for some reason cannot handle fast forwarding / rewind or scene selection. We're talking 1080p playing from a i7 Extreme workstation + gigabit network. XBMC with HD support and Samba access would most likely playback perfectly on a PS3 homebrew build. Guess it's time to fork git://xbmc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/xbmc/xbmc but I'd almost prefer to take a wait and see approach with Sony's first salvo against custom firmware users.
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    My suggesting punishment is a possible motivation, you are vindicating Sony's position.

davidcuddeback 16y ago

Previous discussion when the root key was released: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2063058 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2063058

heretoo 16y ago
>>> In late December 2010, a hacking group called FAIL0VERFLOW discovered a way to access certain (but not all) levels of the PS3 System by circumventing the corresponding TPMs. Id. at ¶16; Bricker Decl. at ¶5, Exh. D. At that point, hackers were given the tools to run unauthorized and pirated software on the PS3 System <<< My understanding is that fail0verflow's exploit didn't enable piracy at all because metldr wasn't being exploited. Anyway, won't this go the way of iphone, where is was ruled that jailbreaking is legal? My hardware, my rules...
- wipt 16y ago
  One can hope so. It's really dependent on how the DMCA is interpreted. I was wondering where this legal action was when I heard about the exploits. Shame on Congress for passing the DMCA to begin with. This exploit only furthers cryptography in practice (that is, this will be a lesson in crypto textbooks for generations to come).
- Xuzz 16y ago
  They didn't have an exploit: they showed how to get the private keys to sign anything. Much more valuable (for legitimate uses (and piracy)) than geohot's posting of one individual key.
- trotsky 16y ago
  Note that phone jail breaking was given a very narrow exemption by the Library of Congress through the terms of the DMCA. It doesn't establish any legal precedent here, and lobbying for such an exemption is a lengthy process. Morally they seem similar enough, sadly that's not the issue.
  - chopsueyar 16y ago

maeon3 16y ago

This notion of owning a piece of hardware without the legal right to take it apart worries me. Close that car hood citizen, there are secrets in there, don't make me taze you. erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19 R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17 n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1 K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70

sorghum 16y ago
This bit in particular disturbs me: >> First, the PS3 System consists of a “protected computer” because it is used in interstate commerce (e.g., the Internet.) Second, without SCEA’s authorization, Defendants intentionally accessed certain levels of the PS3 Systems by circumventing SCEA’s TPMs in the PS3 Systems. Defendants’ access to such levels in the PS3 Systems is not authorized; to the contrary, the PlayStation Network Terms of Service and User Agreement (“PSN User Agreement”) prohibits the circumvention of security features in the PS3 System. It looks like there is a legal definition of a "protected computer" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_computer), but I can't imagine it was ever intended to apply to one's own computer. Furthermore, how is the PlayStation Network user agreement relevant here? You don't have to agree to anything to buy a PS3, only to use the optional PSN service.
- pyre 16y ago
  It sounds like they are grasping for straws with that claim. I think that it's likely to get thrown out. If it doesn't get immediately tossed out, or at least defeated in court, then it would be time to worry.
- allwein 16y ago
  They're also failing to grasp that "protected computer" is an instance attribute, and not a class attribute.

atomical 16y ago

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

cookiecaper 16y ago
It's not a cut-and-dry matter of whether intellectual property "should be protected". I think most hackers expect some protection in the form of copyright. However, most hackers are also tinkerers and are disturbed that current IP law so heavily favors corporate interests, even to the extent where you cannot use something you rightfully own according to your own desires. Would you buy an oven if there was a big label that said "IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE THIS OVEN FOR BROWNIES; ALL BROWNIE BAKERS WILL BE PROSECUTED"? Do you think laws that allow that kind of thing are good? Remember, this isn't a rented oven, you bought the whole thing outright. Why should there be laws that allow hardware makers to say "THIS COMPUTER CAN ONLY RUN MOBILE OS 5.5; ALL USERS OF NON-MOBILE OS 5.5 WILL BE PROSECUTED"? What about (cooling it on the caps) "it is illegal to publish the words etched into the bottom of this oven. Do not read the words on the bottom of this oven"? Copyright was originated to make the creation of intellectual property economically worthwhile so that more intellectual content could be produced and distributed. I think we crossed that threshold a long time ago and now we've gone way overboard into the other extreme; our current laws actively discourage creativity, which is the exact opposite of their purpose. Why doesn't your post say, "It seems many companies don't believe that those that purchase their hardware have a right to use it according to their own dictates. If these companies don't believe in that, don't mass produce and sell your product to everyone!"? Surely massive distribution with no restriction on buyers is a horrible way to keep a secret.
- roel_v 16y ago
  EULA's have nothing to do with copyright, it's plain contract law. If you and I are neighbors and we agree that you I will pay you 250$ a month to not park you car in front of my house (while you legally have a right to do so), should that not be allowed? If I am a shoe manufacturer with local retail outlets you and I agree that I will sell you my shoes for reselling overseas, but part of the agreement is that you won't sell them locally; should that be allowed? If you and I agree that I will sell you a device but you will only use it under certain circumstances, should that be allowed? I think the government has no business in private contracts in any of the above situations. Let people make their own agreements and then let the market decide. The only role the government has herein is to enforce contracts - what good are contracts when one party can decide retroactively that they don't like the terms anymore, and oh I don't want to cancel the contract, no I want to have my pie and eat it, too?

iwwr 16y ago

If you watched the CCC presentation on the PS3, you know these people are more interested in running their own software than breaking the console to play pirated games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbUVgxw1yWc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbUVgxw1yWc (30 seconds)

ugh 16y ago
Here is the whole presentation (45 min., three parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIlbmn-4A4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIlbmn-4A4&feature=mfu_i... Other formats here: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/Conference_Recordings http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/Conference_Recording...; slides and links here: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4087.en.html http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4087.en.h...
zzygan 16y ago
Although I dont agree with SECA, their point of view is that once the console can run "uncertified" software then its only a matter of time before the pirates have their day. I think that if Sony had just left the OtherOS option in the new consoles, and not removed the support from older ones and maybe improved it by allowing access to the GPU, then this would have taken a lot lot longer since there was no motivation for the hardcore guys
- iwwr 16y ago
  They may have even lasted into the release PS4 and so benefit from nearly zero piracy through the product cycle.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    OT, but I haven't seen any rumors of a new generation of consoles. This generation has lasted a lot longer than the previous, and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least another year or two out of them. The addition of the new motion controls (Kinect and PS Move, although I haven't heard really anything about the latter) make it seem even less likely that they'll push for a new console yet. Edit: I also wouldn't be surprised if these motion control addons are research for the next console generation. I've heard of people thinking of Kinect as the next generation of XBox somewhat, and it does kind of make some sense. I don't think we'll reach a stage where motion controls are integral to most games, because even in this generation with the SixAxis on the PS3, most all of the uses of it were one of gimmicks (Mirror's Edge: Use the SixAxis to balance, or just use a control stick. Uncharted: Use the SixAxis to adjust grenade arc...or again, just use a control stick. Ratchet and Clank: Use the SixAxis for two minigames).

makeramen 16y ago

engadget article says it's just a restraining order? unless things have changed since they published this post: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/sony-sues-geohot-fail0verflow-over-ps3-exploits/ http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/sony-sues-geohot-fail0ver...

redthrowaway 16y ago

From the court order: IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Hotz and his officers, employees, attorneys and representatives, and all other persons or entities in privity or acting in concert or participation with Defendant Hotz, be immediately temporarily restrained from: ...Offering to the public, posting online, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, distributing, providing, or otherwise trafficking in any circumvention technology, products, services, methods, codes, software tools, devices, component or part thereof... ...Providing links from any website to any other website selling, offering for sale, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, importing, exporting, offering to the public, distributing, providing, posting, or otherwise trafficking in any Circumvention Devices... And a whole lot more. Aside fromt the fact that it seems the corporate world still hasn't heard of the Streisand Effect, the language of this document is worrying. Clearly, the laws were written with commercial theft of IP and industrial espionage/reverse engineering in mind. The linguistic contortions seem to make it clear that the DMCA and CFAA were never meant to be used against hackers, but rather against counterfeiters. It's pretty disturbing that even the courts march lockstep with corporations in stretching the law to serve corporate ends. edit: As pointed out below, this is a proposed order, not one issued by a judge. Thus, please disregard the last bit about the courts marching in lockstep with corporate interests. I'm appending rather than editing so that the responses make sense.

obsessive1 16y ago
If I'm right though, that's only a proposed restraining order? Or do I have the wrong end of the stick?
- redthrowaway 16y ago
  I think you're right. There's no signature from a judge at the bottom, which suggests this is something they're submitting to the court in the hopes of having it approved. IANAL, so I don't know how that would work.
  - repsilat 16y ago
    The "fill in the blanks" bits suggest that pretty strongly, too - > IT IS ORDERED that SCEA shall post a bond in the amount of $_______ as security...

vog 16y ago

It is interesting to see how fast this key spreads over the net. At the moment, a quick google search shows 26,700 results: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22C0+CE+FE+84+C2+27+F7+5B%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22C0+CE+FE+84+C2+27+F7+5B%22

Raphael 16y ago
Results counts on Google are wildly inaccurate.
- lamnk 16y ago
  It's still a data point to take. How else do you propose to measure the popularity of one thing on internet (in a quick way) ?

hjkluydefgw 16y ago

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hjkluydefgw 16y ago

christoph 16y ago

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/GeoHot/ http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/GeoHot/ Note to Sony lawyers: no doubt you're eager to rack up another billable hour by sending legal threats to me and my university. Before you go down that unhappy road, check out what happened the last time a large corporation tried to stop the mirroring of technical information here: The Gallery of CSS Descramblers. Have you learned anything in ten years? David S. Touretzky Research Professor of Computer Science Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213