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> we know it's harmful when parents try to teach children to drink responsibly and "let them try in controlled conditions". It works much better to not let chil
by GuiA 7y ago
> we know it's harmful when parents try to teach children to drink responsibly and "let them try in controlled conditions". It works much better to not let children drink at all.
Do we? In French culture it’s not uncommon to let kids as young as 12-13 take a few sips of wine at weddings, family meals, etc; and having attended university in France, the UK, and the US, my experience is that French students are by far the most reasonable in their consumption. Some might get hammered once or twice a week during their first years of university, but there’s not much that approaches the frat party levels of debauchery one witnesses in the US.
- 05 7y ago> France has one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in Europe, with the country trailing behind only Estonia, Lithuania and the Czech Republic in the quantities of alcohol it drinks, according to the World Health Organization.
- GuiA 7y agoSure, there’s a long cultural history of drinking a glass of wine with a meal. What’s your broader point?
- circlefavshape 7y agoI think most parents would be more worried about alcoholism and/or risky levels of drunkenness than total consumption.
- jacobush 7y agoWouldn't alcoholism be very correlated with total consumption?
- beatgammit 7y agoMaybe? There's a lot of other things to consider, such as the number of drinkers and whether it's customary to drink throughout the day or only during a small window (night). Drinking 4+ glasses of wine all at once is quite different from drinking one glass at each meal and one before bed. Extrapolate that to weekly statistics and someone who drinks a lot of wine culturally can look worse than someone who only drinks at parties, and they could even look like an alcoholic.
- jacobush 7y agoI'd say many are but don't suffer from it except lower life expectancy.
- vkou 7y ago4 glasses of wine over a day, on a regular basis is alcoholism. That's ~20 drinks/week. It may be functional alcoholism, if it doesn't affect your finances/job/relationships, but it's still alcoholism.
- DanBC 7y agoThis thread starts by talking about "alcoholism" which is an unhelpful term because problem drinking, harmful drinking, and dependent drinking are all problems even if they're not accompanied by physical addiction. Both the things you describe - one person have 4+ glasses of wine on a night out, and another person have one glass of wine at each meal and another before bed - are worrying. Binge drinking (and 4+ glasses of wine is definitely a binge) significantly increases risks of a number of harms from things like accidents, STIs, unplanned pregnancy, etc. The advice strongly recommends against binging, but if it's only occasionally it's probably not that harmful. The other situation is a bit more complicated depending on serving size and wine strength. A small glass of wine is about 150ml. If the wine is 9% ABV that would give us 1.5 UK units per glass. Two of those a day, 6 days a week, is about 19 units. That's more than the recommended limit which is 14 units per week, and it doesn't have more than one drink free day. A larger glass of wine is about 200 ml. The wine might be stronger at 12.5% ABV. That gives us 2.5 units per glass, and 30 units per week. This is probably problem and harmful drinking. For alcoholism we're probably talking about people who need a medically assisted withdrawal from alcohol. https://pathways.nice.org.uk/pathways/alcohol-use-disorders/assisted-alcohol-withdrawal https://pathways.nice.org.uk/pathways/alcohol-use-disorders/... A medically assisted withdrawal from alcohol would be considered if the person is drinking 15 units per day. That's two 750ml bottles of 10% ABV wine every day. This would be an outpatient programme. An inpatient medically assisted withdrawal would be considered if the person drinks over 30 units per day. This is 750ml of 40% ABV spirits, or 4 bottles of that 10% ABV wine.
- tripzilch 7y ago> Wouldn't alcoholism be very correlated with total consumption? Yes, and so is the number of glass bottles they recycle. But it's the alcoholism that is a health problem to address.
- jacobush 7y agoAgain, apply my reasoning about games to this issue too. In France, you have an entire country as mirror and role model for drinking without mayhem. That is one data point to consider. :)
- C1sc0cat 7y agoI would imagine rather earlier at home in the Uk I used to have a small glass of hard cider with meals at the week end when I was 10 or 11.