6 ms·

As it turns out, Mr. Jones and his lieutenants knowingly used their employees, working them hard, making them give up time with their friends and families, know

by edw519 16y ago

As it turns out, Mr. Jones and his lieutenants knowingly used their employees, working them hard, making them give up time with their friends and families, knowing all along that no matter how hard they worked, and how successful their efforts, many of them would be rewarded with layoffs. Pardon me for being cynical, but just a little personal experience: BOSS: "There will NOT be a layoff." REALITY: There was a layoff. BOSS: "There will be no more layoffs." REALITY: There were more layoffs. BOSS: "This will be the last layoff." REALITY: There were more layoffs. BOSS: "I will be the next person laid off." REALITY: He wasn't. Someone else was. BOSS: "I am instituting 35 hrs. pay for 40 hrs. work." REALITY: It lasted one pay period before the layoff. BOSS: "The corporate jet will be the next thing to go." REALITY: The corporate jet was still in place after the layoff. BOSS: "Customer XYZ will pay their bill next week." REALITY: Customer XYZ never paid their bill. Layoff instead. BOSS: "Finish this project and we're in the clear." REALITY: The project was finished. Then came the layoff. BOSS: "Indispensable employees will be spared." REALITY: No one was indispensable. BOSS: "We made our numbers. We'll be OK." REALITY: The SEC and IRS disagreed. We went out of business. BOSS: "U.S. manufacturing is solid and protected." REALITY: 400 jobs shipped to Haiti within 90 days. BOSS: "A layoff will be the last resort." REALITY: Layoff + executive auto leases still in place. BOSS: "I will promote you next week." REALITY: The company newsletter reported his girlfriend getting my job. BOSS: "Just help me get through this and I will reward you." REALITY: I helped him get through it. He didn't reward me. Sorry to say, moral of the story: Q: How can you tell if the boss is lying? A: His mouth is moving.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
I've been a consultant most all of my life -- mainly because I don't trust stock-price-driven companies to be honorable or to know what the heck they are doing. I love all the people I've worked with: it's just the organizations and business models they create that's so crazy. The nice thing about being a consultant is that you do something they like, they pay you. Repeat and rinse. Pretty soon you're out on the street looking for a new gig. If they don't like you, you don't get paid (and you're on the street quicker). It's a very simple and easily understandable deal. And being on the street is not the end of something or a failure -- it's a chance to go on an even greater adventure. I even had one government employee who had a high level job at a place we all know tell me "Look. This is easy. You do all the work. Solve all the hard problems. I'll take credit for it." Sounded good to me. Finished the job early and went on to something else. He's still there doing the same thing. There are a lot of implied or assumed promises in corporate full-time jobs. It's been my experience that you shouldn't trust any of them -- even from people who are trying really hard to do the right thing. IT is just a business where everything is always changing. It's not like any other business I've ever seen
- thwarted 16y ago
  I even had one government employee who had a high level job at a place we all know tell me "Look. This is easy. You do all the work. Solve all the hard problems. I'll take credit for it." The only thing that is missing from this Don Draper-esque speech is the "That's what the money is for" line, as that's what consultants are supposed to do.
- gcb 16y ago
  > There are a lot of implied or assumed promises in corporate full-time jobs There is a lack of unions and labor laws. bye karma.
  - davidw 16y ago
    I'm not one of the libertarian crowd, so what I say below is not just a knee-jerk response, and in any case I don't really wish to pursue these sorts of discussions (politics) here, because they end badly. Suffice it to say though, that you can't summarize the problem and solution in "lack of unions and labor laws". Italy, where I reside, has both, especially the latter, and they are quite detrimental in many ways. It's a complex issue with many factors, and likely has both regulatory, cultural and economic causes and solutions, some of which are easy to change and some that aren't.
    - va_coder 16y ago
      There needs to be balance. God knows we don't have that in the U.S.A these days. But maybe we only have ourselves to blame. My grandfather, with no education, came from Italy had 3 kids a stay at home wife and a home. I on the hand am very educated and skilled and can barely afford a two bedroom apartment. Somethings changed.
  - forensic 16y ago
    The lack of unions is due to culture rather than labour laws. I've spent a lot of time trying to convince IT people to start a voluntary union for their own benefit. In a word, they are too competitive and naieve to make it happen. IT employees in general could double their average salaries without resorting to labour laws just by starting voluntary unions and doing a modicum of collective bargaining. Instead they allow themselves to be divided and conquered and they even hide their salaries from co-workers which benefits no one aside from management. Ideologically, I am against government-enforced unions. However I am very much in favour of voluntary unions and there is lots of evidence that they can work especially when they behave in reasonable ways that don't threaten the existence of companies. Some corporations will prefer to hire from unions for a variety of reasons including less variability in work quality and higher morale. Anyway collective bargaining does not have to be enforced in law to be effective. The real issue is that the most talented and resourceful people in society tend to be the ones who become owners, and they use their talent and influence to convince IT employees that unions are bad. The average programmer is stubbornly anti-union for no logical reason - the reason is that he's brainwashed by the strong opinions of industry leaders who don't want to pay him what he's worth.
yuhong 16y ago
Yep, I know. The cover-up culture in the companies that develop such bosses certainly don't help. That is one reason why it is harmful.
tomjen3 16y ago
Remind him that a verbal contract is as valid as something you have written down.
- gcb 16y ago
  i'd love to see some precedence in court of joe doe vs big corp CEO over a motivational speech being a verbal contract. really.
shashank261 16y ago
There is a saying which summarizes everything- "Best employment is self employment"

by edw519 16y ago

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

I've been a consultant most all of my life -- mainly because I don't trust stock-price-driven companies to be honorable or to know what the heck they are doing. I love all the people I've worked with: it's just the organizations and business models they create that's so crazy. The nice thing about being a consultant is that you do something they like, they pay you. Repeat and rinse. Pretty soon you're out on the street looking for a new gig. If they don't like you, you don't get paid (and you're on the street quicker). It's a very simple and easily understandable deal. And being on the street is not the end of something or a failure -- it's a chance to go on an even greater adventure. I even had one government employee who had a high level job at a place we all know tell me "Look. This is easy. You do all the work. Solve all the hard problems. I'll take credit for it." Sounded good to me. Finished the job early and went on to something else. He's still there doing the same thing. There are a lot of implied or assumed promises in corporate full-time jobs. It's been my experience that you shouldn't trust any of them -- even from people who are trying really hard to do the right thing. IT is just a business where everything is always changing. It's not like any other business I've ever seen

thwarted 16y ago
I even had one government employee who had a high level job at a place we all know tell me "Look. This is easy. You do all the work. Solve all the hard problems. I'll take credit for it." The only thing that is missing from this Don Draper-esque speech is the "That's what the money is for" line, as that's what consultants are supposed to do.
gcb 16y ago
> There are a lot of implied or assumed promises in corporate full-time jobs There is a lack of unions and labor laws. bye karma.
- davidw 16y ago
  I'm not one of the libertarian crowd, so what I say below is not just a knee-jerk response, and in any case I don't really wish to pursue these sorts of discussions (politics) here, because they end badly. Suffice it to say though, that you can't summarize the problem and solution in "lack of unions and labor laws". Italy, where I reside, has both, especially the latter, and they are quite detrimental in many ways. It's a complex issue with many factors, and likely has both regulatory, cultural and economic causes and solutions, some of which are easy to change and some that aren't.
  - va_coder 16y ago
    There needs to be balance. God knows we don't have that in the U.S.A these days. But maybe we only have ourselves to blame. My grandfather, with no education, came from Italy had 3 kids a stay at home wife and a home. I on the hand am very educated and skilled and can barely afford a two bedroom apartment. Somethings changed.
- forensic 16y ago
  The lack of unions is due to culture rather than labour laws. I've spent a lot of time trying to convince IT people to start a voluntary union for their own benefit. In a word, they are too competitive and naieve to make it happen. IT employees in general could double their average salaries without resorting to labour laws just by starting voluntary unions and doing a modicum of collective bargaining. Instead they allow themselves to be divided and conquered and they even hide their salaries from co-workers which benefits no one aside from management. Ideologically, I am against government-enforced unions. However I am very much in favour of voluntary unions and there is lots of evidence that they can work especially when they behave in reasonable ways that don't threaten the existence of companies. Some corporations will prefer to hire from unions for a variety of reasons including less variability in work quality and higher morale. Anyway collective bargaining does not have to be enforced in law to be effective. The real issue is that the most talented and resourceful people in society tend to be the ones who become owners, and they use their talent and influence to convince IT employees that unions are bad. The average programmer is stubbornly anti-union for no logical reason - the reason is that he's brainwashed by the strong opinions of industry leaders who don't want to pay him what he's worth.

yuhong 16y ago

Yep, I know. The cover-up culture in the companies that develop such bosses certainly don't help. That is one reason why it is harmful.

tomjen3 16y ago

Remind him that a verbal contract is as valid as something you have written down.

gcb 16y ago
i'd love to see some precedence in court of joe doe vs big corp CEO over a motivational speech being a verbal contract. really.

shashank261 16y ago

There is a saying which summarizes everything- "Best employment is self employment"