4 ms·

Give me a break. Until suppression of building new units stops (by poor, helpless owners), this is the only recourse. I agree wholeheartedly that the real sol

Give me a break. Until suppression of building new units stops (by poor, helpless owners), this is the only recourse. I agree wholeheartedly that the real solution is to build more homes but that doesn't appear to be in the cards. So the idea that rent control doesn't actually help lower income people is _completely_ nuts. I know of many people off the top of my head that no-way would still be living in San Francisco if there weren't rent control (including my elderly aunt and uncle).

Renevith 7y ago
If there weren't rent control, market rents would certainly be much lower, so it's really hard to say whether your aunt and uncle could afford it or not. Surely you weren't basing your statement on the current market rent in their neighborhood? On what basis are you making that claim?
- negrit 7y ago
  > If there weren't rent control, market rents would certainly be much lower source?
  - Renevith 7y ago
    Here's the latest: "... while rent control prevents displacement of incumbent renters in the short run, the lost rental housing supply likely drove up market rents in the long run, ultimately undermining the goals of the law." https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/DMQ.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/DMQ.pdf Previously: "Rent control policies generally lead to higher rents in the uncontrolled market, with rents some-times substantially higher than would be expected without rent control (i.e., between 10 to 25 percent higher). Over time, if rent control does not apply to new construction, there is some evidence that the impact on uncontrolled rents diminishes." https://www.nmhc.org/globalassets/knowledge-library/rent-control-literature-review-final2.pdf https://www.nmhc.org/globalassets/knowledge-library/rent-con... It also follows from supply and demand. Owners are more likely to sell rather than rent out their places, and tenants are more likely to stay in their below-market rent units, both of which reduces supply for new (i.e. market-rate) tenants.
aaronblohowiak 7y ago
Rent control is another form of pulling up the bridge behind you.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  Except renters aren't accumulators in anything like the same way as investors and don't tend to be the ones agitating against development because they're not invested the property and have no incentive to drive it up by limiting housing stock. Guilting the least financially secure for having any degree of predictability and stability is an emotionally manipulative rather than a substantive argument.
roenxi 7y ago
> Until suppression of building new units stops (by poor, helpless owners), this is the only recourse. In the spirit of furious agreement, yes the best option would obviously be not to suppress construction. Just because one interest group wants stupid things to happen that benefit them in the short term doesn't make it a good idea to go open season on stupid things. The goal should always be to improve the state of affairs; not to spread the pain around. Everyone bar no-one needs institutions stuffed with people who make sensible long-term decisions. The best way to get that is to always pressure them in that direction. Bending to political expedience encourages people who make bad decisions; not a good strategy.
jeffdavis 7y ago
> I know of many people... Visible benefits; invisible costs. Great politics. Who you don't see are the people outside looking in that want an apartment but can't find one, or can't afford one, or need to sign a new lease at a very high rent. Rent control doesn't unequivocally help current renters. It also keeps them stuck in one place for a long time, even when it's not a great fit for them. And pretty much every economist says rent control raises rents and lowers quality overall, hurting those trying to move in.

Renevith 7y ago

If there weren't rent control, market rents would certainly be much lower, so it's really hard to say whether your aunt and uncle could afford it or not. Surely you weren't basing your statement on the current market rent in their neighborhood? On what basis are you making that claim?

negrit 7y ago
> If there weren't rent control, market rents would certainly be much lower source?
- Renevith 7y ago
  Here's the latest: "... while rent control prevents displacement of incumbent renters in the short run, the lost rental housing supply likely drove up market rents in the long run, ultimately undermining the goals of the law." https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/DMQ.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/DMQ.pdf Previously: "Rent control policies generally lead to higher rents in the uncontrolled market, with rents some-times substantially higher than would be expected without rent control (i.e., between 10 to 25 percent higher). Over time, if rent control does not apply to new construction, there is some evidence that the impact on uncontrolled rents diminishes." https://www.nmhc.org/globalassets/knowledge-library/rent-control-literature-review-final2.pdf https://www.nmhc.org/globalassets/knowledge-library/rent-con... It also follows from supply and demand. Owners are more likely to sell rather than rent out their places, and tenants are more likely to stay in their below-market rent units, both of which reduces supply for new (i.e. market-rate) tenants.

aaronblohowiak 7y ago

Rent control is another form of pulling up the bridge behind you.

anigbrowl 7y ago
Except renters aren't accumulators in anything like the same way as investors and don't tend to be the ones agitating against development because they're not invested the property and have no incentive to drive it up by limiting housing stock. Guilting the least financially secure for having any degree of predictability and stability is an emotionally manipulative rather than a substantive argument.

roenxi 7y ago

> Until suppression of building new units stops (by poor, helpless owners), this is the only recourse. In the spirit of furious agreement, yes the best option would obviously be not to suppress construction. Just because one interest group wants stupid things to happen that benefit them in the short term doesn't make it a good idea to go open season on stupid things. The goal should always be to improve the state of affairs; not to spread the pain around. Everyone bar no-one needs institutions stuffed with people who make sensible long-term decisions. The best way to get that is to always pressure them in that direction. Bending to political expedience encourages people who make bad decisions; not a good strategy.

jeffdavis 7y ago

> I know of many people... Visible benefits; invisible costs. Great politics. Who you don't see are the people outside looking in that want an apartment but can't find one, or can't afford one, or need to sign a new lease at a very high rent. Rent control doesn't unequivocally help current renters. It also keeps them stuck in one place for a long time, even when it's not a great fit for them. And pretty much every economist says rent control raises rents and lowers quality overall, hurting those trying to move in.