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I think you know exactly what I'm referring to and are trying to drag the conversation into the weeds of vocabulary pedantry. I am of course talking about inte

I think you know exactly what I'm referring to and are trying to drag the conversation into the weeds of vocabulary pedantry. I am of course talking about internet companies who turn user data into an asset. The facebooks, twitters, linkedins (same owner as github) etc of the world. You know that's what I'm talking about. Freenode is a far cry from facebook. >I have no idea why you think browsers are a tool to facilitate surveillance to a greater extent than dedicated clients. Because that's simply factually the case? IRC networks do not give my IRC client proprietary tracking scripts to run. With an IRC client if any third party code execution occurs, it's due to an exploit in the client. On the other hand with web browsers, servers sending malicious scripts for the browser to run is par for the course. Typical modern web browsers (even Mozilla's own) are total disasters, particularly in their default configuration. Why the hell aren't they shipping with resist-fingerprinting turned on by default? Because it would mildly inconvenience some users, and despite all their good intentions and positive words, they still prioritize user perception of convenience over privacy.

dpark 7y ago
> I am of course talking about internet companies who turn user data into an asset. Then say that instead of rambling about social media like a tinfoil hatter. It’s totally fine if you don’t want to support Facebook or Github or Twitter. This isn’t just about “social media”, though. > IRC networks do not give my IRC client proprietary tracking scripts to run. There’s so much here to unpack. If you choose to use a communication tool that adds tracking scripts to your browser, then you have chosen to use a tool that tracks you. If Slack, for example, is sending your browser tracking beacons, then the problem is Slack and not the browser. The same issue could apply to your IRC client if you chose poorly. The same can also be said of the IRC server you connect to. Indeed Mozilla is currently running their own IRC server and undoubtedly can track you if you choose to use their communication platform. Best I can tell, what you actually want is to have the ability to use any client divorced from the service, and also to avoid your login being tracked by any “social media” service. I can understand the latter even if I don’t particularly care about that myself. The former is essentially pining for the early days of the internet when browsers rendered only text, and essentially no one actually cared about them. Essentially any platform that reaches a high level of richness supports tracking you. Email has the exact same issue because it supports images from servers. And yeah you can fix it, but only by giving up the richness that users actually want.
- partialrecall 7y ago
  > Then say that What, say this "The facebooks, twitters, linkedins (same owner as github) etc of the world." instead of "social media"? Why? To be needlessly verbose for fun and kicks? No thanks. > "tinfoil hatter." Well screw you too I guess? I don't appreciate your characterization at all.
  - dpark 7y ago
    > What, say this "The facebooks, twitters, linkedins (same owner as github) etc of the world." instead of "social media"? Why? To be needlessly verbose for fun and kicks? No thanks. No. The “internet companies who turn user data into an asset“ part. i.e. Something concrete about your criticism rather than point to an extremely vague category. I think you could probably be more specific still, but at least now I have an idea what you don’t like about “social media” and why you don’t apply that criticism to IRC.

dpark 7y ago

> I am of course talking about internet companies who turn user data into an asset. Then say that instead of rambling about social media like a tinfoil hatter. It’s totally fine if you don’t want to support Facebook or Github or Twitter. This isn’t just about “social media”, though. > IRC networks do not give my IRC client proprietary tracking scripts to run. There’s so much here to unpack. If you choose to use a communication tool that adds tracking scripts to your browser, then you have chosen to use a tool that tracks you. If Slack, for example, is sending your browser tracking beacons, then the problem is Slack and not the browser. The same issue could apply to your IRC client if you chose poorly. The same can also be said of the IRC server you connect to. Indeed Mozilla is currently running their own IRC server and undoubtedly can track you if you choose to use their communication platform. Best I can tell, what you actually want is to have the ability to use any client divorced from the service, and also to avoid your login being tracked by any “social media” service. I can understand the latter even if I don’t particularly care about that myself. The former is essentially pining for the early days of the internet when browsers rendered only text, and essentially no one actually cared about them. Essentially any platform that reaches a high level of richness supports tracking you. Email has the exact same issue because it supports images from servers. And yeah you can fix it, but only by giving up the richness that users actually want.

partialrecall 7y ago
> Then say that What, say this "The facebooks, twitters, linkedins (same owner as github) etc of the world." instead of "social media"? Why? To be needlessly verbose for fun and kicks? No thanks. > "tinfoil hatter." Well screw you too I guess? I don't appreciate your characterization at all.
- dpark 7y ago
  > What, say this "The facebooks, twitters, linkedins (same owner as github) etc of the world." instead of "social media"? Why? To be needlessly verbose for fun and kicks? No thanks. No. The “internet companies who turn user data into an asset“ part. i.e. Something concrete about your criticism rather than point to an extremely vague category. I think you could probably be more specific still, but at least now I have an idea what you don’t like about “social media” and why you don’t apply that criticism to IRC.