5 ms·

I didn't read the piece but suspect there is a conflation of "middle class" with what might be better called "professional class"- 2 working parents in high end

I didn't read the piece but suspect there is a conflation of "middle class" with what might be better called "professional class"- 2 working parents in high end white color jobs in high demand locations in high demand cities who tightly manage their time. $350k is at the very low end of this professional class with multiple kids. Kids, and proximity to good schools, get very expensive, very quickly. Housing: properties that can fit families- but where kids need to share rooms- in demand areas sell for $2M. Look it up. Mortgage on that is $10k/month. Rents are equivalent. Childcare: a babysitter off the books for one kid is minimum $20/hour. With multiples, and a baby requiring full time attention, plan for $1k/week. Don't forget the bonus. Food: at Whole Paycheck, the only supermarket in high demand areas, with picky kids, it's basically $5/person/meal. A 4-5 person family is $60-$75/day, $2k/month. Meals out with the kids anywhere in that neighborhood are going to be $20+ entree, $10+ appetizers, $10/dessert, $10/beer. Family of 4-5 can easily get to $200, including tip. Twice a month and that's $6k/year. So with just those "basics" you're already at $120k + $50k + $30k = $200k post tax expenses, so $350k pretax. No private school, no vacations, no cell phones, no savings, no incidentals. Note that in the context of these areas, this "professional class" is absolutely "middle class" in relative terms. "Upper class" in these areas will be the numerous families with assets and incomes above $1M.

ebg13 7y ago
> with picky kids, it's basically $5/person/meal Nit. Actually picky kids only want plain hot dogs and plain quesadillas and plain spaghetti. The ingredient cost of feeding picky children is a few cents per meal even after you add childrens' multivitamins and smoothies. I think y'all have lost your minds on these food prices. $50 gets you two 16oz steaks (two adults can each eat steak for lunch AND dinner with that) and 15 or 20 _pounds_ of fresh vegetables easy at whole foods in the 94107 zip code according to Prime Now. And that's on top of the million servings of dry grains you can buy for a dollar. $50 every day? You're killing me.
- jonahbenton 7y ago
  Lol, happy to provide the entertainment. Just to be more precise from an example I am intimately familiar with- * picky in this case means "specific"- specific products or combinations of products are required to satisfy a given child's nutritional demands. One can bellow like the dad in Calvin and Hobbes- "if they're hungry enough they'll eat it"- but that will be to no avail. * actual individual serving sizes of these specific products are often at least $1, and combinations of those servings are needed on a per eating event basis. * "snacking" means that it's more like there are 4-5 eating events of $3+ per day per kid * packaging, portion sizes, product lifespan and pickiness mean that a lot of food- probably 40-50%- gets thrown away, either not eaten during a meal or not gotten to before it "goes bad." From a recent daily trip that bled for $60: * oat milk - $1+/serving for a wannabe vegetarian environmental activist * quick cook oatmeal - $1/serving (and don't forget the cranberry raisins, also $1/serving) * bagel - $1/serving * cream cheese - $1/serving * cut fruit - $5/serving (snack!) * yogurt - .75/serving (cheap!) * specific brand of peanut butter granola - $2/serving * non-nut snack bars - $1/serving The "whole" thing is insane.
  - ebg13 7y ago
    > * cut fruit - $5/serving (snack!)* You know... If you buy a knife, you'll save a lot in the long run. It doesn't even need to be a sharp knife. > quick cook oatmeal - $1/serving Quaker oats costs $1 per pound, not per serving. Granulated sugar costs even less. I have similar comments about your other prices, but you probably get the point. [edit] Wait, no. One more. I have to. > cream cheese - $1/serving 365 Everyday Value, Whipped Cream Cheese, 8 oz Price: $1.79 ($0.22 / Ounce) HOW MUCH CREAM CHEESE ARE YOU FEEDING YOUR KIDS? :)

ebg13 7y ago

> with picky kids, it's basically $5/person/meal Nit. Actually picky kids only want plain hot dogs and plain quesadillas and plain spaghetti. The ingredient cost of feeding picky children is a few cents per meal even after you add childrens' multivitamins and smoothies. I think y'all have lost your minds on these food prices. $50 gets you two 16oz steaks (two adults can each eat steak for lunch AND dinner with that) and 15 or 20 _pounds_ of fresh vegetables easy at whole foods in the 94107 zip code according to Prime Now. And that's on top of the million servings of dry grains you can buy for a dollar. $50 every day? You're killing me.

jonahbenton 7y ago
Lol, happy to provide the entertainment. Just to be more precise from an example I am intimately familiar with- * picky in this case means "specific"- specific products or combinations of products are required to satisfy a given child's nutritional demands. One can bellow like the dad in Calvin and Hobbes- "if they're hungry enough they'll eat it"- but that will be to no avail. * actual individual serving sizes of these specific products are often at least $1, and combinations of those servings are needed on a per eating event basis. * "snacking" means that it's more like there are 4-5 eating events of $3+ per day per kid * packaging, portion sizes, product lifespan and pickiness mean that a lot of food- probably 40-50%- gets thrown away, either not eaten during a meal or not gotten to before it "goes bad." From a recent daily trip that bled for $60: * oat milk - $1+/serving for a wannabe vegetarian environmental activist * quick cook oatmeal - $1/serving (and don't forget the cranberry raisins, also $1/serving) * bagel - $1/serving * cream cheese - $1/serving * cut fruit - $5/serving (snack!) * yogurt - .75/serving (cheap!) * specific brand of peanut butter granola - $2/serving * non-nut snack bars - $1/serving The "whole" thing is insane.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > * cut fruit - $5/serving (snack!)* You know... If you buy a knife, you'll save a lot in the long run. It doesn't even need to be a sharp knife. > quick cook oatmeal - $1/serving Quaker oats costs $1 per pound, not per serving. Granulated sugar costs even less. I have similar comments about your other prices, but you probably get the point. [edit] Wait, no. One more. I have to. > cream cheese - $1/serving 365 Everyday Value, Whipped Cream Cheese, 8 oz Price: $1.79 ($0.22 / Ounce) HOW MUCH CREAM CHEESE ARE YOU FEEDING YOUR KIDS? :)