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The real solution here is to build more housing, as high prices are a market signal of a shortage. While I support more unit creation more than I support rent c
by tmh79 7y ago
The real solution here is to build more housing, as high prices are a market signal of a shortage. While I support more unit creation more than I support rent control, in the current crises we need both. What I still can't get over is how much of CA land use politics is pure generational warfare, the olds vs the millennials, and it seems that the millennials are finally starting to win some fights.
- pitaj 7y agoRent control deters the building of more housing. It's literally part of the problem.
- cryptoz 7y agoCan you explain what you mean? I don't follow. Rent control is a bandaid that provides a level of stability to the lower classes. They can live without daily anxiety of being rudely defacto 'evicted' by radical, surprise rent increases. This enables a society to continue to grow and function at a somewhat more sustainable pace, letting cities and counties grow without intense boom-bust and crash cycles, with a more stable working class, and therefore a long-term sustainable housing construction market. I understand that rent control is no grand solution, and that we need more houses built - but I do not understand how rent control is part of the problem. The problem starts and ends with personal and corporate greed. The rent control is an attempt at constructing a sustainable, stable society from the ashes of an out-of-control capitalism that is leaving most of its consumers in the dust. Rent control is not part of the problem and would not deter rational actors from building additional housing - I believe it would increase it.
- pitaj 7y agoRent doesn't get changed daily, only when a lease is up for renewal. Rent control deters the creation of new housing. This reduce in supply raises the price, which is bad for the poor - exactly the people it is meant to help.
- cryptoz 7y agoI was under the impression that some rents can be increased during the lease. I do not think it is only a renewal event, by law. > Rent control deters the creation of new housing. I keep seeing this repeated but I don't understand. Why does rent control deter creation of new housing? > This reduce in supply raises the price But you've glossed over why supply is reduced. I don't see any reason that supply would be reduced with basic moderate rent control like this one. Edit: I have tripped some wire (?) and am not allowed to post any more. In response to the comment below, > https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tenantsunion.org/rights/rule-changes-rent-increases&ved=2ahUKEwjPo9nzh8rkAhUNCTQIHUNGD70QFjAFegQICxAU&usg=AOvVaw2s5EfPAjtZv2bNjxTalN9J https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... That seems to be Washington, not California. According to http://www.hrc-la.org/doc.asp?id=36 http://www.hrc-la.org/doc.asp?id=36 it seems to read that some leases allow rent increases mid-lease.
- Litmus2336 7y agohttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tenantsunion.org/rights/rule-changes-rent-increases&ved=2ahUKEwjPo9nzh8rkAhUNCTQIHUNGD70QFjAFegQICxAU&usg=AOvVaw2s5EfPAjtZv2bNjxTalN9J https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... I believe you might be thinking of month-to-month, which is not a traditional lease. On all fixed term leases over a month rent cannot be changed during the term of the lease.
- phil248 7y agoWhich is an oddly elaborate way of saying that rent increases in California can happen annually.
- Litmus2336 7y agoTechnically, you can have a lease of any length. I've seen 3 and 6 month leases. I'm sure it's possible to have a 24+ month lease.
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- ProfessorLayton 7y agoRent control does indeed make the housing shortage worse in the following ways: - It makes it so new renters subsidize the old ones, raising prices for newly vacant places, defeating the purpose of controlling costs. It also doesn't offer tons of protection from boom/bust cycles, as mainly those riding the boom will be able to afford absurd prices in highly regulated places like SF — Where a 1br can fetch 3.7k/mo (!!) - "FU, got mine" attitude disengages renters from organizing the same way NIMBY homeowners do. For example, SF renters could easily outnumber homeowners to allow much more housing to be built, but ~70% of housing stock there falls under rent control. I do want to be clear that I fully support controlling costs in some manner, however, this desperately needs to be tied to a solution that results in more housing.
- phil248 7y agoLuckily for all of us, this law will not create a new class of rent control prisoners/devotees because the allowable increases are too high.
- tmh79 7y agodo you have any clue about this specific measure? Its limited to buildings that are 15 years old or older, and it limits rent increases to 8% annually, which in practice is about 1 - 3% of all lease agreements in CA, a very small amount. Commercial construction loans are based on the 15 year revenue generating potential of the proposed building, this law was created specifically with that in mind so as not to interfere.
- pitaj 7y ago> do you have any clue about this specific measure? Any price control inevitably has negative consequences in the market. This is practically a law of economics. > Its limited to buildings that are 15 years old or older, and it limits rent increases to 8% annually, which in practice is about 1 - 3% of all lease agreements in CA, a very small amount. If it with have such minimal effect why even have it? > Commercial construction loans are based on the 15 year revenue generating potential of the proposed building, this law was created specifically with that in mind so as not to interfere. Then it's not as bad as it could be. Doesn't mean it's justified.
- dawhizkid 7y agoThe landlords that jack up rent more than 8% a year, at least in SF, are the commercial landlords of large apartment complexes like Avalon. At the very least this will stop the ones managing older complexes built 2004 and earlier from doing that anymore.
- phil248 7y agoThis is simply about spreading out massive rent hikes over the course of a few years instead of a few months. It gives families time to adapt or move. The allowable increases under this law are very high. It may not seem justified to you, but to a low income family in a rapidly gentrifying area, it means everything.
- dantheman 7y agoAll you need to do is say, if you're increasing the rent by more than 7% then you need to give a years notice. That's it.
- raldi 7y agoThis bill specifically exempts new housing from its controls.
- chaostheory 7y ago> generational warfare, the olds vs the millennials This is a good example of that. Rent control tends to benefit the older generation at the expense of younger people and families. It does nothing to solve the actual problem of lack of housing inventory.
- tmh79 7y agomillennials in CA are disproportionately renters, not home owners. This bill will provide millennials with some extra security so they know their rent won't be spiked and they'll need to move.
- chaostheory 7y agoimo It will still benefit the older generation more. There's now even less motivation for people to build more housing inventory to rent out. With ever dwindling housing inventory, it's first come first serve. Guess who's there first? "Economists from both the left and the right have a well-established aversion to rent control, arguing that such policies ignore the message of rising prices, which is to build more housing. Studies in San Francisco and elsewhere show that price caps often prompt landlords to abandon the rental business by converting their units to owner-occupied homes. And since rent controls typically have no income threshold, they have been faulted for benefiting high-income tenants." This is what would really help with the housing problem "State Senator Scott Wiener, a San Francisco Democrat, offered a bill that would essentially override local zoning to allow multiple-unit housing around transit stops and in suburbs where single-family homes are considered sacrosanct. The bill was shelved in its final committee hearing this year, but Mr. Wiener has vowed to keep pushing the idea." But the NIMBYs killed it for now https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/business/economy/california-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/business/economy/californ... > This bill will provide millennials with some extra security so they know their rent won't be spiked and they'll need to move. I'm not sure that's how rent control works. Unless I missed something, your rent is only capped if you don't move.
- pitaj 7y agoAt the cost of further increasing the price of rents across the board due to limited housing supply.
- melling 7y ago“That bleak picture — combined with three-hour commutes“ We could also consider building more, and better, mass transit.