"But don't buy too much into the shit Apple tells about their cameras." I guess I don't know what that means. Any statement by a manufacturer is self-serving a

"But don't buy too much into the shit Apple tells about their cameras." I guess I don't know what that means. Any statement by a manufacturer is self-serving and should generally be taken with lots of salt. 3rd party reviews from trusted sites are more useful. "Don't get me wrong. It's a good camera, probably the best in a phone" So bugs exist but it's still "probably the best in a phone?" What's the issue, then? "didn't frame it as some "camera that pro's use instead of their DSLR" or whatever they said in the marketing campaign" Have they actually suggested that there exists any real pattern of professionals -- who, above all, tend to shoot in camera RAW, which Apple obscures in iOS -- using iPhones in lieu of full-frame DSLR or mirrorless bodies? Because I sure haven't seen it. A modern, higher end smartphone is probably a better camera than any fixed-lens option from 3-5 years ago. And, increasingly, that means it's plenty enough camera for most people. But it's nowhere nearly as capable as my Sony. OTOH, I've seen shots with the X and later iterations (by humans I know, not a marketing department) that were genuinely better, to my eye, than what I get out of my 8. That's appealing. The other factor for us is the continued existence of the 6S in our family. The 8's camera is materially better than the one in my wife's 6S, and this matters since we both take pics of friends and family and vacations. Moving her to the 8 and me to an 11 Pro would mean a net uptick in group photo quality. Win!