4 ms·

This is an extremely heavy handed law which would be destructive to large parts of the economy by making many people’s livelihoods illegal. The drafters of the

• Spivak 7y ago
  They're not carving out high-skill professions. You'll notice that doctors aren't on that list. They're carving out professions that are already under special regulatory regimes that affect how they're able to sell their work. In part because people/businesses are required by law to contract with people who hold these licenses. Like you cannot build a building without a licensed architect and civil engineer. There would be an uproar if you couldn't renovate your office without hiring an architect an an employee. Edit: Looks like the final version is way different than this quote. The final list of exemptions are: - physicians and surgeons - insurance brokers - securities brokers - direct sales under specific (previously existing) conditions. So looks like they didn't really care about professional services after all but carved out industries where you look like an employee but operate a tiny little business inside another one.
  • woah 7y ago
    Doctors are exempted in a section immediately above the one I quoted.
    • Spivak 7y ago
      I stand corrected except that your quote doesn't seem to be from the law as it was passed. Looks like the final changes to the code exempt doctors, insurance brokers, securities brokers, and sales people under certain conditions. Far less of a carve-out than I was expecting.
  • woah 7y ago
    It is actually pretty difficult to find the final text of the bill, and the list of exemptions seems to change a lot between versions, so let's look at a quote from one of the authors: > Lorena González, the San Diego Assembly member who authored AB 5, says she’s working to make sure that is not the case. The point, she says, is to protect workers from exploitation and to classify them as real employees with the power to unionize, not to stifle their independence. “We don’t want to deny somebody the opportunity to, say, submit a story to The New York Times,” she says. “So we are looking at freelancers and working with some of the associations and unions to come up with a definition for what a ‘real’ freelancer is.” https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/ab-5-freelancers-bill/ https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/ab-5-freelancers-bill/ She acknowledges the fact that this will cause a lot of problems for a lot of people who have nothing to do with the gig economy, and that they are working on a lot of carve-outs because of this. But I guess the software dev's union didn't make it in time to do the proper lobbying, so we're out of luck. Some laws lay out elegant general principles that can be applied in many scenarios, and some laws fail at this and require people to contort themselves into the limited categories thought of by the politicians and their lobbyists at the time they wrote the law.
• kerkeslager 7y ago
  Meh, as a freelance software engineer who sometimes works for California employers, I'll be happy to classify myself as an employee and decline health insurance in exchange for higher pay. While the law could have been written more simply, I think your concern for my well-being is misplaced.
  • woah 7y ago
    Sure, maybe you can replicate an arrangement you had before, but due to the multiple new layers of bureaucracy you’re going to get paid less. Like I said, they knew this was an issue which is why 90% of the law is carve-outs. Unfortunately software engineers (and many other professions, I’m sure) have slipped through the cracks and now will be subject to the harms that they were trying to avoid for doctors, accountants, fishermen, etc etc etc
  • rsweeney21 7y ago
    It's not that simple. For a company, a contractor is much different than an employee, and it is much more regulated and costly to terminate an employee. For example, if you terminate an employee you have to have proper documentation to justify the termination. Even then, you are still vulnerable to a wrongful termination lawsuit...unless you offer them severance in exchange for signing away the right to sue. You are also on the hook for unemployment.
    • ilikehurdles 7y ago
      Wouldn't a way to "work around" this be to incorporate or form a sole proprietorship for your own services?
      • kerkeslager 7y ago
        Incidentally, you'd be crazy not to do this, as having a business, even a sole proprietorship, makes taxes a lot easier.
        • j0ba 7y ago
• curious_fella1 7y ago
  You said it yourself: software engineer So we are allowed.
  • rrss 7y ago
    The vast majority of software engineers are unlicensed. I don't think CA even licenses software engineers.
  • deleted 7y ago
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  • cortesoft 7y ago
    The law doesn't categorize based on job titles that have no legal meaning. You really think Uber can get around this by just changing everyone's title to "Driving Engineers"?
• KingMachiavelli 7y ago
  How does the law prevent you from working under your own LLC?
• alkonaut 7y ago
  I wonder why they didn’t just put a minimum rate for contracting work? That would put all qualified workers above it. Just say “you can hire someone to gig for an hour all you want but you need to pay $50/h”.
• deleted 7y ago
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