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My friend recently got his sons a smartphone and he says their relationship has been irrevocably damaged because of it. Not because they are rude, etc. But when

My friend recently got his sons a smartphone and he says their relationship has been irrevocably damaged because of it. Not because they are rude, etc. But when they used to talk, now it's complete silence and them looking at their phones, chatting with their friends or girlfriends. He hates the phones now because there is no socialization whatsoever with his kids. The power of the phone is that strong, and he had such a close relationship with his sons.

leetcrew 7y ago
one possible interpretation of this story is: when given the option, the son prefers to talk to his friends instead of his parent. the phone is not the culprit here; it merely revealed a pre-existing preference.
- josephwegner 7y ago
  I think you're spot on, and this is part of the reason I will have "no phones* after dinner/school/whatever" when my kids become smartphone age. I expect I will have similar rules about headphones in cars, or tablets at restaurant tables. If my relationship with my kid's is falling apart, I want to have some sort of signal that alerts me to it happening. I want it to feel awkward, so that I know to fix it. If the damage is masked behind a screen, I might miss it and never know to repair it. * or whatever the new distracting device is in ~10 years.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    I think my point suggests the opposite conclusion: arbitrary electronics bans are counterproductive. if your kid chooses the device over interacting with you, that is a strong sign that something is wrong; this is the signal you are looking for! if you remove the choice by prohibiting the device during "family time", you are just removing a source of information. my parents never told us we couldn't use our phones at dinner, but they did explain that when we did it, we were signaling that what we were doing with the phone was more interesting/important than family dinner. I decided that wasn't the message I wanted to give my parents, so I would only pull out the phone for time-sensitive communications. a little bit of respect can go a long way.
    - z0r 7y ago
      Some patterns work in some families and don't in others. I don't believe a permissive parenting style is going to work equally well everywhere. A kid choosing to do something bad for them is often just a signal of youth and inexperience.
      - leetcrew 7y ago
        I just think there's an important difference between "this activity is harmful in excess, so you may only do it for n minutes per day" and "I've decided I want to interact with you at this time every day, so you are not allowed to use your phone then". I think it's okay to set reasonable limits on screentime. I don't think you should force your child to interact with you; that seems kind of unhealthy.
- dxhdr 7y ago
  Yet another interpretation: text message notifications provide a larger a dopamine response than a spoken conversation.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    idk man, the pace of text communication is a little slow for my tastes. if I have the option of texting person A or speaking to person B, I'll usually choose B if both conversations are just as interesting. ymmv, of course.
pradn 7y ago
It's time to move past the idea of "self-control" as an option against the onslaught of addictive apps. I've been leaving my phone at home on the weekends when I go out for a few hours, and it's been liberating. It's easier to leave my phone at home completely than to stop checking it when I'm away. And yes, this does require some self-control. I mention this to friends and they say they can't at all leave because of paranoia - what if I'm really needed, what if I miss something? I'm okay with missing important calls if they come. That's the price of it all.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ihuman 7y ago
  If I understand correctly, what you're saying is you use self-control to create situations where you don't need to rely on self-control? That seems like a good compromise between having a smartphone 24/7 and no smartphone ever. I've done similar things in the past; when I needed to study for an upcoming exam, I setup a web filter that would block distracting websites if I browsed them for too long.
- flyinghamster 7y ago
  My own approach is to treat the phone as a tool, not as a social media consumption gadget. GPS, quick point-and-shoot camera, weather apps, music player - those are my main uses. Spending all day with my face buried in my phone? No thank you.
helpPeople 7y ago
What if I told you this has little to do with phones, but rather the dynamic between parent and child?
- ls612 7y ago
  What if I told you most parents don’t care what their (teen/young adult) children want, but instead care about what they want for said children?
  - notacoward 7y ago
    What if I told you that what parents want for their children isn't necessarily what's best for said children?
    - subpixel 7y ago
      What if I told you there is no scenario, at all, in which the best thing for any child is a smart phone, or a social media app, or the internet on any device?
      - notacoward 7y ago
        What if I told you that nobody is under any obligation to consider such an extreme opinion, without even an attempt at factual support?
notacoward 7y ago
Like others who have replied, I'm skeptical that it's really about the phones. The age when kids get phones just happens to be about the same age when they start to separate from their parents and have always done so. Some people maintain a strong connection during that time and some don't. 'Twere ever thus. Personally, I'm fortunate that I've maintained a pretty strong connection with my 15yo daughter. A large part of that is that I'm comfortable communicating with her the same way her other friends do, not only the physical medium of the phone but also the cultural medium of memes and slang and pop culture. I can still play Authority Figure when I need to, but there's a lot less friction involved when I'm also part of her daily social context and not The Alien who requires a unique mode of communication.
jojolatulipe 7y ago
I think as a parent you can still compromise and set limits/rules on the usage of the smartphone(s) at home. There is time to talk to friends (before smartphones, it was MSN messenger or else), and there is time to spend as a family where phones are not allowed. The same thing is also kinda true for school.
opportune 7y ago
I don’t think this is about the smartphone so much as lack of etiquette around the smartphone. Unless his son is too young to have a phone he should be able to discuss ettiquette like no phone at the dinner table or while we are talking.
- notacoward 7y ago
  I agree about etiquette. Using a phone while with someone doesn't bother me in and of itself. Shutting others out does, whether it's in person or online. The "with people but texting" scenario is difficult because there's no established norm for how to balance the competing social needs.
thefz 7y ago
> But when they used to talk, now it's complete silence and them looking at their phones, chatting with their friends or girlfriends. He hates the phones now because there is no socialization whatsoever I hate it but it happens with adults too all the time. Not only it's incredibly rude but I feel I'm missing a lot of meaningful communication

leetcrew 7y ago

one possible interpretation of this story is: when given the option, the son prefers to talk to his friends instead of his parent. the phone is not the culprit here; it merely revealed a pre-existing preference.

josephwegner 7y ago
I think you're spot on, and this is part of the reason I will have "no phones* after dinner/school/whatever" when my kids become smartphone age. I expect I will have similar rules about headphones in cars, or tablets at restaurant tables. If my relationship with my kid's is falling apart, I want to have some sort of signal that alerts me to it happening. I want it to feel awkward, so that I know to fix it. If the damage is masked behind a screen, I might miss it and never know to repair it. * or whatever the new distracting device is in ~10 years.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I think my point suggests the opposite conclusion: arbitrary electronics bans are counterproductive. if your kid chooses the device over interacting with you, that is a strong sign that something is wrong; this is the signal you are looking for! if you remove the choice by prohibiting the device during "family time", you are just removing a source of information. my parents never told us we couldn't use our phones at dinner, but they did explain that when we did it, we were signaling that what we were doing with the phone was more interesting/important than family dinner. I decided that wasn't the message I wanted to give my parents, so I would only pull out the phone for time-sensitive communications. a little bit of respect can go a long way.
  - z0r 7y ago
    Some patterns work in some families and don't in others. I don't believe a permissive parenting style is going to work equally well everywhere. A kid choosing to do something bad for them is often just a signal of youth and inexperience.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      I just think there's an important difference between "this activity is harmful in excess, so you may only do it for n minutes per day" and "I've decided I want to interact with you at this time every day, so you are not allowed to use your phone then". I think it's okay to set reasonable limits on screentime. I don't think you should force your child to interact with you; that seems kind of unhealthy.
dxhdr 7y ago
Yet another interpretation: text message notifications provide a larger a dopamine response than a spoken conversation.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  idk man, the pace of text communication is a little slow for my tastes. if I have the option of texting person A or speaking to person B, I'll usually choose B if both conversations are just as interesting. ymmv, of course.

pradn 7y ago

It's time to move past the idea of "self-control" as an option against the onslaught of addictive apps. I've been leaving my phone at home on the weekends when I go out for a few hours, and it's been liberating. It's easier to leave my phone at home completely than to stop checking it when I'm away. And yes, this does require some self-control. I mention this to friends and they say they can't at all leave because of paranoia - what if I'm really needed, what if I miss something? I'm okay with missing important calls if they come. That's the price of it all.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ihuman 7y ago
If I understand correctly, what you're saying is you use self-control to create situations where you don't need to rely on self-control? That seems like a good compromise between having a smartphone 24/7 and no smartphone ever. I've done similar things in the past; when I needed to study for an upcoming exam, I setup a web filter that would block distracting websites if I browsed them for too long.
flyinghamster 7y ago
My own approach is to treat the phone as a tool, not as a social media consumption gadget. GPS, quick point-and-shoot camera, weather apps, music player - those are my main uses. Spending all day with my face buried in my phone? No thank you.

helpPeople 7y ago

What if I told you this has little to do with phones, but rather the dynamic between parent and child?

ls612 7y ago
What if I told you most parents don’t care what their (teen/young adult) children want, but instead care about what they want for said children?
- notacoward 7y ago
  What if I told you that what parents want for their children isn't necessarily what's best for said children?
  - subpixel 7y ago
    What if I told you there is no scenario, at all, in which the best thing for any child is a smart phone, or a social media app, or the internet on any device?
    - notacoward 7y ago
      What if I told you that nobody is under any obligation to consider such an extreme opinion, without even an attempt at factual support?

notacoward 7y ago

Like others who have replied, I'm skeptical that it's really about the phones. The age when kids get phones just happens to be about the same age when they start to separate from their parents and have always done so. Some people maintain a strong connection during that time and some don't. 'Twere ever thus. Personally, I'm fortunate that I've maintained a pretty strong connection with my 15yo daughter. A large part of that is that I'm comfortable communicating with her the same way her other friends do, not only the physical medium of the phone but also the cultural medium of memes and slang and pop culture. I can still play Authority Figure when I need to, but there's a lot less friction involved when I'm also part of her daily social context and not The Alien who requires a unique mode of communication.

jojolatulipe 7y ago

I think as a parent you can still compromise and set limits/rules on the usage of the smartphone(s) at home. There is time to talk to friends (before smartphones, it was MSN messenger or else), and there is time to spend as a family where phones are not allowed. The same thing is also kinda true for school.

opportune 7y ago

I don’t think this is about the smartphone so much as lack of etiquette around the smartphone. Unless his son is too young to have a phone he should be able to discuss ettiquette like no phone at the dinner table or while we are talking.

notacoward 7y ago
I agree about etiquette. Using a phone while with someone doesn't bother me in and of itself. Shutting others out does, whether it's in person or online. The "with people but texting" scenario is difficult because there's no established norm for how to balance the competing social needs.

thefz 7y ago

> But when they used to talk, now it's complete silence and them looking at their phones, chatting with their friends or girlfriends. He hates the phones now because there is no socialization whatsoever I hate it but it happens with adults too all the time. Not only it's incredibly rude but I feel I'm missing a lot of meaningful communication