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What do you expect from your studio assistant that you think might put you at risk of a number of lawsuits? Honestly, if you want to hire someone to do some wo

What do you expect from your studio assistant that you think might put you at risk of a number of lawsuits? Honestly, if you want to hire someone to do some work a few hours a week then you are basically hiring a part time employee. There's nothing dangerous around doing this and it's certainly not a minefield if you treat them with the respect that any employee deserves.

neltnerb 7y ago
Well, other than the minor hassle that they need to know how to issue a W2 and get enrolled for workers comp insurance and pay their estimated taxes for them. None are super hard, but they are barriers for people who aren't used to hiring people, which is the case for I think a lot of self-employed people. I only finally bothered to learn how to do it all last year when I needed some extra help with projects for my consulting company. Prior to that I just paid a contract CFO to deal with it because it's what you don't know you don't know that gets you sued. So either it's expensive to hire a CFO just for that, or expensive in your time to learn it all when your main goal is to actually get work done that produces revenue.
- dd36 7y ago
  Gusto will handle it all. Though I’m not a fan and we’re looking to switch. The never gave us our referral credits and while it’s NBD, it definitely left a bad taste.
  - cultofmetatron 7y ago
    been looking into gusto myself. what are the alternatives in this space?
- donatj 7y ago
  This, 100% this. It makes the move from a single person company to a 2 person company terrifyingly complex, particularly for those of us without a background in business. It’s a literal chilling action on small business.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - streb-lo 7y ago
    Terrifyingly complex? We're talking about a Google search and a few forms...
    - phil248 7y ago
      ...and completing all of those forms flawlessly, as a layperson, lest you open yourself to any number of lawsuits. Just the thought of it makes me nervous. It's why large companies have dedicated staff to dealing with such issues.
      - bwb 7y ago
        This is the weirdest thread I've seen on HN, just pay a little money to Gusto or similar to do this. You are talking about barely any cost to have someone else do it who does it all the time. If you don't have the money to pay $50 bucks then do it yourself and just worry less. The chance you mess up is so low it isn't even a thing.
        mrguyorama 7y ago
        It's funny because all of these comments are ignoring the thousands of small businesses run by average people that have already solved this problem for over 30 years
        moate 7y ago
        All of the (objectively) stupid people I know who successfully own and run businesses with employees, and the people on this site clutching their pearls at the thought of having to fill out ~5 forms. If you're unable to grow your business because you are scared about a step required to grow your business you aren't going to grow your business. Nobody owes you this. Risk aversion isn't anyone else's fault.
        7y ago
- dustinmoris 7y ago
  > So either it's expensive to hire a CFO just for that, or expensive in your time to learn it all when your main goal is to actually get work done that produces revenue. This attitute is exactly why those laws are needed. As a business owner if you want to hire some other human being to work for your company then it should be your natural instinct that wants you to learn everything that makes the life of that other human being easy to work for you, but because you have no intrinsic interest in actually educating yourself what someone might need if they work for you, that is why you have to be forced into learning that by law. It's sad that all you care about is someone getting your work done, because it's still a human being and that legislation is there for a reason.
  - buildzr 7y ago
    And that attitude is the reason we have so much overhead and useless garbage being produced instead of valuable labor. Just because I don't want to learn the intricacies of labor and tax law doesn't mean I won't pay my employees well and do right by them.
    - CodeCube 7y ago
      Just because you say you will pay your employees and do right by them, doesn't mean someone else will do the same ... for every one of you, there's someone who will happily exploit someone else, and whether it can be attributed to malice, or ignorance is irrelevant.
      - stale2002 7y ago
        And now the people who were hired previously aren't going to have a job. I hope that's what you wanted.
  - strictnein 7y ago
    > As a business owner if you want to hire some other human being to work for your company then it should be your natural instinct that wants you to learn everything that makes the life of that other human being easy to work for you Everything? That'd be thousands of pages of regulations to sift through and understand. So, no, there's no "natural instinct" to do that. Kind of going overboard on the rest of it. They just want to hire some part time help, not staff a coal mine.
- mercutio2 7y ago
  These (incredibly small) requirements you list for having a small number of part time employees have been legal obligations for more than 50 years. So yes, you have to fill out 5 forms, and write 4 checks, every year for withheld taxes. But none of this qualifies for “it’s sad, it’s getting hard to be a small business”. They’re just things everyone in the US has been legally obligated to do for part time employees for an exceedingly long time. So I don’t get the tone of this thread.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - CodeCube 7y ago
    People with business degrees get a ton of crap in tech circles (god knows I've sent my share of snark their way over the years ;) ) ... but at the end of the day, there is value to someone learning those things, and people have been successfully thriving for decades as you mention under the exact same obligations. I think tech generally seeks to reduce friction as much as possible, even to its detriment ... like someone removing some log from a worksite while cleaning up, only to realize it was holding up something else. The original intent of the thing is lost over time
    - titanomachy 7y ago
      I could be wrong, but I don't think my friends who got business degrees were learning how to fill out W-4s. They were learning things like "strategy" and "organisational behaviour" and apparently doing presentations every other week.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  ADP does this all for you for the low price of about $20/month/employee. It's even cheaper once you have more employees. There are dozens of other major competing payroll services providers. Why do people on HN expect others to learn PC or Internet security but themselves throw in the towel trying to learn relatively simple tasks?
  - neltnerb 7y ago
    I'm not complaining, it's just a barrier. I support regulation of things like this and am aware of ADP and Gusto. I am also glad that Uber and Lyft drivers will be compensated as employees if they are treated like employees. But it's a mental leap to move from "just need to find enough clients to pay my bills" to "need to make sure the paperwork is right so I can pay someone to help me out". I don't personally find it intimidating, but I've also done it before.
- ajross 7y ago
  Well, yeah, because if we don't have these rules, part time employers won't pay taxes, their employees will have to pay tax penalties if they try, and they won't get insurance for workplace injuries. And these are bad things, so we make rules about them. Now, maybe you'll argue that these are all steps that the government should be doing instead of the employer. And I agree, but they're done this way because there's a whole political aisle in this country dedicated to the proposition that the government shouldn't ever do anything. So someone has to do it, and in our scheme it's the employer.

neltnerb 7y ago

Well, other than the minor hassle that they need to know how to issue a W2 and get enrolled for workers comp insurance and pay their estimated taxes for them. None are super hard, but they are barriers for people who aren't used to hiring people, which is the case for I think a lot of self-employed people. I only finally bothered to learn how to do it all last year when I needed some extra help with projects for my consulting company. Prior to that I just paid a contract CFO to deal with it because it's what you don't know you don't know that gets you sued. So either it's expensive to hire a CFO just for that, or expensive in your time to learn it all when your main goal is to actually get work done that produces revenue.

dd36 7y ago
Gusto will handle it all. Though I’m not a fan and we’re looking to switch. The never gave us our referral credits and while it’s NBD, it definitely left a bad taste.
- cultofmetatron 7y ago
  been looking into gusto myself. what are the alternatives in this space?
donatj 7y ago
This, 100% this. It makes the move from a single person company to a 2 person company terrifyingly complex, particularly for those of us without a background in business. It’s a literal chilling action on small business.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- streb-lo 7y ago
  Terrifyingly complex? We're talking about a Google search and a few forms...
  - phil248 7y ago
    ...and completing all of those forms flawlessly, as a layperson, lest you open yourself to any number of lawsuits. Just the thought of it makes me nervous. It's why large companies have dedicated staff to dealing with such issues.
    - bwb 7y ago
      This is the weirdest thread I've seen on HN, just pay a little money to Gusto or similar to do this. You are talking about barely any cost to have someone else do it who does it all the time. If you don't have the money to pay $50 bucks then do it yourself and just worry less. The chance you mess up is so low it isn't even a thing.
      - mrguyorama 7y ago
        It's funny because all of these comments are ignoring the thousands of small businesses run by average people that have already solved this problem for over 30 years
        moate 7y ago
        All of the (objectively) stupid people I know who successfully own and run businesses with employees, and the people on this site clutching their pearls at the thought of having to fill out ~5 forms. If you're unable to grow your business because you are scared about a step required to grow your business you aren't going to grow your business. Nobody owes you this. Risk aversion isn't anyone else's fault.
        7y ago
dustinmoris 7y ago
> So either it's expensive to hire a CFO just for that, or expensive in your time to learn it all when your main goal is to actually get work done that produces revenue. This attitute is exactly why those laws are needed. As a business owner if you want to hire some other human being to work for your company then it should be your natural instinct that wants you to learn everything that makes the life of that other human being easy to work for you, but because you have no intrinsic interest in actually educating yourself what someone might need if they work for you, that is why you have to be forced into learning that by law. It's sad that all you care about is someone getting your work done, because it's still a human being and that legislation is there for a reason.
- buildzr 7y ago
  And that attitude is the reason we have so much overhead and useless garbage being produced instead of valuable labor. Just because I don't want to learn the intricacies of labor and tax law doesn't mean I won't pay my employees well and do right by them.
  - CodeCube 7y ago
    Just because you say you will pay your employees and do right by them, doesn't mean someone else will do the same ... for every one of you, there's someone who will happily exploit someone else, and whether it can be attributed to malice, or ignorance is irrelevant.
    - stale2002 7y ago
      And now the people who were hired previously aren't going to have a job. I hope that's what you wanted.
- strictnein 7y ago
  > As a business owner if you want to hire some other human being to work for your company then it should be your natural instinct that wants you to learn everything that makes the life of that other human being easy to work for you Everything? That'd be thousands of pages of regulations to sift through and understand. So, no, there's no "natural instinct" to do that. Kind of going overboard on the rest of it. They just want to hire some part time help, not staff a coal mine.
mercutio2 7y ago
These (incredibly small) requirements you list for having a small number of part time employees have been legal obligations for more than 50 years. So yes, you have to fill out 5 forms, and write 4 checks, every year for withheld taxes. But none of this qualifies for “it’s sad, it’s getting hard to be a small business”. They’re just things everyone in the US has been legally obligated to do for part time employees for an exceedingly long time. So I don’t get the tone of this thread.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- CodeCube 7y ago
  People with business degrees get a ton of crap in tech circles (god knows I've sent my share of snark their way over the years ;) ) ... but at the end of the day, there is value to someone learning those things, and people have been successfully thriving for decades as you mention under the exact same obligations. I think tech generally seeks to reduce friction as much as possible, even to its detriment ... like someone removing some log from a worksite while cleaning up, only to realize it was holding up something else. The original intent of the thing is lost over time
  - titanomachy 7y ago
    I could be wrong, but I don't think my friends who got business degrees were learning how to fill out W-4s. They were learning things like "strategy" and "organisational behaviour" and apparently doing presentations every other week.
gamblor956 7y ago
ADP does this all for you for the low price of about $20/month/employee. It's even cheaper once you have more employees. There are dozens of other major competing payroll services providers. Why do people on HN expect others to learn PC or Internet security but themselves throw in the towel trying to learn relatively simple tasks?
- neltnerb 7y ago
  I'm not complaining, it's just a barrier. I support regulation of things like this and am aware of ADP and Gusto. I am also glad that Uber and Lyft drivers will be compensated as employees if they are treated like employees. But it's a mental leap to move from "just need to find enough clients to pay my bills" to "need to make sure the paperwork is right so I can pay someone to help me out". I don't personally find it intimidating, but I've also done it before.
ajross 7y ago
Well, yeah, because if we don't have these rules, part time employers won't pay taxes, their employees will have to pay tax penalties if they try, and they won't get insurance for workplace injuries. And these are bad things, so we make rules about them. Now, maybe you'll argue that these are all steps that the government should be doing instead of the employer. And I agree, but they're done this way because there's a whole political aisle in this country dedicated to the proposition that the government shouldn't ever do anything. So someone has to do it, and in our scheme it's the employer.