6 ms·

The other countries that tax worldwide income: Libya, North Korea, Eritrea and the Philippines. Great company to be in. You could call it ridiculous because it

The other countries that tax worldwide income: Libya, North Korea, Eritrea and the Philippines. Great company to be in. You could call it ridiculous because it’s so unusual. But the reason most countries don’t do it is that taxes are a supposed to be a deal - the government forces you to hand over money and pays for services you use in return. Expats - they aren’t using those services. And your point about tax evaders is moot - taxing global income only hurts law abiding expats, not evaders. Seems like you’re being hostile and skeptical for personal reasons.

wrkronmiller 7y ago
Devils-advocate: The U.S. government still provides expats services such as the State Department, potentially U.S. government intervention to help evacuate citizens from troubled areas etc...
- thelittleone 7y ago
  So does Australia whilst not taxing on worldwide income.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    And in what way is that good for or fair to the citizens who contribute to the system that enables you to take advantage of these services?
  - davidw 7y ago
    And Canada, Italy, Germany, Norway, New Zealand, France, UK, etc... etc.... do as well without the silly system the US has in place.
    - navigatesol 7y ago
      >Canada...do as well without the silly system the US has in place Perhaps you're forgetting about the evacuation of Lebanese Canadians in 2006, "Citizens of Convenience" and the associated changes in Canadian citizenship laws. It's not without controversy.
      - davidw 7y ago
        Canada does not require its citizens abroad to file taxes. I'm sure there are other controversies and things going on, but that's what we were talking about.
        navigatesol 7y ago
        >but that's what we were talking about. This controversy is directly related. You should inform yourself. Canadian taxpayers spent $100MM evacuating Lebanese Canadians from Lebanon in 2006, many of whom were citizens but had never paid taxes to Canada. We now bill for extrication. Seems like a fair compromise.
- hfdehfddhs 7y ago
  And if you're a Coca Cola employee, that's one of the benefits provided.
navigatesol 7y ago
>taxing global income only hurts law abiding expats If you want to maintain your citizenship and have a safe-haven to run to if SHTF, then you should contribute to the tax system. I truly don't understand why this is controversial. An American passport is powerful. Edit: I suppose I shouldn't be shocked that the tax avoiding leeches in Silicon Valley don't feel obligated to contribute to the societies from which they extract their wealth. I'm glad the system is catching up.
- hfdehfddhs 7y ago
  " safe-haven to run to if SHTF" If S* is hitting the fan, aren't you assuming said expat lives in, to use El Jefe's words, a "S* country"? By conservation of mass, the S* comes from somewhere. Instead, most expats live in W. Europe, Canada, or Japan/Korea. Pretty safe. " tax avoiding leeches in Silicon Valley don't feel obligated to contribute to the societies from which they extract their wealth" Well, no. Ppl aren't complaining about paying taxes to the sovereign of where they live, even on their global income. That's another discussion. It's about paying taxes, usually mostly locally earned income, to an entity far away that has no jurisdiction and that provides nothing in return.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >and that provides nothing in return. As others have mentioned, your American passport does provide you with services. But if you truly believe it's worthless, why maintain citizenship? To save the fee to renounce citizenship, even though it will save potentially tens of thousands of dollars annually? Doesn't make sense to me. No, it's a safety measure. And I think people are lucky to have it, at the low cost of some of your tax dollars.
    - hfdehfddhs 7y ago
      "why maintain citizenship" In fact I live in the US but haven't applied for US citizenship for this, among other, reasons("passport" being woefully misused word in this context). Anyway, that is a very poor advice since: 1. Most people have one citizenship, including expats (most return). 2. Giving up your US citizenship implies very many more things than not paying taxes. Look up ex-pat type laws. "American passport does provide you with services" Well the passport surely doesn't. The citizenship might, but I've been an expat all of my life (started bouncing around the world at the tender age of three weeks). I've never used, no one in my family has every used, an no one I know has ever used our rich, Western countries' services [0] I have used the services of the local police very many times. "No, it's a safety measure" The Special Forces aren't on a razor's edge ready to jump and come get you. That's BS from Hollywood. You get in trouble abroad, and yes, you can ask for the local consulate to send someone to see you in jail. That's, in the vast majority of cases, about it. But I try to avoid jail myself. [0] We're not British. Apparently, Brits get into so much trouble abroad that the Brits have come up with a simple solution: charge the drunk louts for consular services! EDIT: To be clear, when I move to another country, I take pains to declare that I'm no longer a resident lest I continue being eligible for that country's services.
rahimnathwani 7y ago
"Seems like you’re being hostile and skeptical for personal reasons." You made three assertions. One was factually incorrect. One was a matter of opinion, about which I was curious to understand your reasoning. The third seemed like it was unlikely to be true and hard to get data about, so again I was curious. I'm sorry if my pointing out an untrue statement and asking for more information about others seems hostile. My personal reason for wanting to point out the incorrect assertion about the US being the only country: https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/
stef25 7y ago
> The other countries that tax worldwide income When I declare my taxes here in Belgium the form always asks me if I have any income / assets abroad (I don't). I guess "tax worldwide income" refers to "if you also live abroad" ?
- davidw 7y ago
  If you're a Belgian citizen, and move to, say, Canada, you'd file taxes in Canada and that'd be the end of it. If I, as a US citizen,move to Canada, I'd have to file and pay Canadian taxes, and file - and maybe pay - US taxes in addition. What you're talking about is if, living in Belgium, you have income from other countries that needs to be reported, which seems fair enough - after all, you live and pay taxes in Belgium, not those other countries.

wrkronmiller 7y ago

Devils-advocate: The U.S. government still provides expats services such as the State Department, potentially U.S. government intervention to help evacuate citizens from troubled areas etc...

thelittleone 7y ago
So does Australia whilst not taxing on worldwide income.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  And in what way is that good for or fair to the citizens who contribute to the system that enables you to take advantage of these services?
- davidw 7y ago
  And Canada, Italy, Germany, Norway, New Zealand, France, UK, etc... etc.... do as well without the silly system the US has in place.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >Canada...do as well without the silly system the US has in place Perhaps you're forgetting about the evacuation of Lebanese Canadians in 2006, "Citizens of Convenience" and the associated changes in Canadian citizenship laws. It's not without controversy.
    - davidw 7y ago
      Canada does not require its citizens abroad to file taxes. I'm sure there are other controversies and things going on, but that's what we were talking about.
      - navigatesol 7y ago
        >but that's what we were talking about. This controversy is directly related. You should inform yourself. Canadian taxpayers spent $100MM evacuating Lebanese Canadians from Lebanon in 2006, many of whom were citizens but had never paid taxes to Canada. We now bill for extrication. Seems like a fair compromise.
hfdehfddhs 7y ago
And if you're a Coca Cola employee, that's one of the benefits provided.

navigatesol 7y ago

>taxing global income only hurts law abiding expats If you want to maintain your citizenship and have a safe-haven to run to if SHTF, then you should contribute to the tax system. I truly don't understand why this is controversial. An American passport is powerful. Edit: I suppose I shouldn't be shocked that the tax avoiding leeches in Silicon Valley don't feel obligated to contribute to the societies from which they extract their wealth. I'm glad the system is catching up.

hfdehfddhs 7y ago
" safe-haven to run to if SHTF" If S* is hitting the fan, aren't you assuming said expat lives in, to use El Jefe's words, a "S* country"? By conservation of mass, the S* comes from somewhere. Instead, most expats live in W. Europe, Canada, or Japan/Korea. Pretty safe. " tax avoiding leeches in Silicon Valley don't feel obligated to contribute to the societies from which they extract their wealth" Well, no. Ppl aren't complaining about paying taxes to the sovereign of where they live, even on their global income. That's another discussion. It's about paying taxes, usually mostly locally earned income, to an entity far away that has no jurisdiction and that provides nothing in return.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >and that provides nothing in return. As others have mentioned, your American passport does provide you with services. But if you truly believe it's worthless, why maintain citizenship? To save the fee to renounce citizenship, even though it will save potentially tens of thousands of dollars annually? Doesn't make sense to me. No, it's a safety measure. And I think people are lucky to have it, at the low cost of some of your tax dollars.
  - hfdehfddhs 7y ago
    "why maintain citizenship" In fact I live in the US but haven't applied for US citizenship for this, among other, reasons("passport" being woefully misused word in this context). Anyway, that is a very poor advice since: 1. Most people have one citizenship, including expats (most return). 2. Giving up your US citizenship implies very many more things than not paying taxes. Look up ex-pat type laws. "American passport does provide you with services" Well the passport surely doesn't. The citizenship might, but I've been an expat all of my life (started bouncing around the world at the tender age of three weeks). I've never used, no one in my family has every used, an no one I know has ever used our rich, Western countries' services [0] I have used the services of the local police very many times. "No, it's a safety measure" The Special Forces aren't on a razor's edge ready to jump and come get you. That's BS from Hollywood. You get in trouble abroad, and yes, you can ask for the local consulate to send someone to see you in jail. That's, in the vast majority of cases, about it. But I try to avoid jail myself. [0] We're not British. Apparently, Brits get into so much trouble abroad that the Brits have come up with a simple solution: charge the drunk louts for consular services! EDIT: To be clear, when I move to another country, I take pains to declare that I'm no longer a resident lest I continue being eligible for that country's services.

rahimnathwani 7y ago

"Seems like you’re being hostile and skeptical for personal reasons." You made three assertions. One was factually incorrect. One was a matter of opinion, about which I was curious to understand your reasoning. The third seemed like it was unlikely to be true and hard to get data about, so again I was curious. I'm sorry if my pointing out an untrue statement and asking for more information about others seems hostile. My personal reason for wanting to point out the incorrect assertion about the US being the only country: https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/

stef25 7y ago

> The other countries that tax worldwide income When I declare my taxes here in Belgium the form always asks me if I have any income / assets abroad (I don't). I guess "tax worldwide income" refers to "if you also live abroad" ?

davidw 7y ago
If you're a Belgian citizen, and move to, say, Canada, you'd file taxes in Canada and that'd be the end of it. If I, as a US citizen,move to Canada, I'd have to file and pay Canadian taxes, and file - and maybe pay - US taxes in addition. What you're talking about is if, living in Belgium, you have income from other countries that needs to be reported, which seems fair enough - after all, you live and pay taxes in Belgium, not those other countries.