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> if you're silly enough to believe that CF is actively logging DoH requests and selling them (CF is involved with serving vast swathes of the internet anyway -

> if you're silly enough to believe that CF is actively logging DoH requests and selling them (CF is involved with serving vast swathes of the internet anyway - if they wanted to go down this route they have far more lucrative avenues open than selling DNS requests by IP). I don't think anyone believes CF will start selling data, that's not what the article argues. Regardless, it's opt-out not opt-in. Which is against newer consumer protection laws such as GDPR. > DoH is vital to protect users around the world from censorship and worse. This isn't black and white. Yes there is upside (as both you and the article agree), but the downside of how DoH is implemented here is that you have to point all your DNS queries to a US company. Historically we've seen how this is a bad idea for global internet privacy (eg. PRISM, etc).

jfindley 7y ago
You do not have to point your DNS queries to a US company, this is completely false. You can point your DNS queries at whichever DoH provider you want - you can even run your own DoH provider if you want to.
- askmike 7y ago
  I should have worded that differently: the default is a US company. Which applies to everyone who doesn't change it specifically for Firefox (the vast majority of users).
  - gcp 7y ago
    ...users in the US. Quite an important detail.
tomxor 7y ago
> I don't think anyone believes CF will start selling data, that's not what the article argues. > Regardless, it's opt-out not opt-in. Which is against newer consumer protection laws such as GDPR. I understand the argument in theory.. but the reality is CF is a more trustworthy DNS provider than basically any consumer ISP in the EU.
- askmike 7y ago
  This is where me and the author disagree with you. In most places in Europe there is a complete distrust of US companies and hosting anything on US soil. Historically we've seen many cases of US companies handing over data to US authorities (willingly or not).
  - heavenlyblue 7y ago
    And practically, US companies are not restricted from selling of user data to third parties, while EU companies are.
  - telmich 7y ago
    I think in most countries, government can approach domestic companies to hand over data in case of illegal action. The problem with the US is that data is being used against you, like recent events have shown.
  - tomxor 7y ago
    This is not speculation it's first hand opinion, I am from the UK, i distrust all UK ISPs, their DNS is filth and they are suspected of working with GCHQ... I agree US companies and US law in general are worse for data protection than the EU, but on per company basis CF is more trustworthy and half of the purpose of their DNS is to attempt to provide more privicy.
notyourday 7y ago
> I don't think anyone believes CF will start selling data, that's not what the article argues. CF is not a private company funded by a foundation with a time until the funding runs out measured in 30-40 years. It is a public company with a small number of customers that provide majority of its revenue. It simply isn't prudent to say that it won't explore other revenue streams in future and that monetization of data won't be one of those streams.
- askmike 7y ago
  Good point. I meant there is no reason to dispute the article because it talks about CF monetizing that data. Because it doesn't.

jfindley 7y ago

You do not have to point your DNS queries to a US company, this is completely false. You can point your DNS queries at whichever DoH provider you want - you can even run your own DoH provider if you want to.

askmike 7y ago
I should have worded that differently: the default is a US company. Which applies to everyone who doesn't change it specifically for Firefox (the vast majority of users).
- gcp 7y ago
  ...users in the US. Quite an important detail.

tomxor 7y ago

> I don't think anyone believes CF will start selling data, that's not what the article argues. > Regardless, it's opt-out not opt-in. Which is against newer consumer protection laws such as GDPR. I understand the argument in theory.. but the reality is CF is a more trustworthy DNS provider than basically any consumer ISP in the EU.

askmike 7y ago
This is where me and the author disagree with you. In most places in Europe there is a complete distrust of US companies and hosting anything on US soil. Historically we've seen many cases of US companies handing over data to US authorities (willingly or not).
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  And practically, US companies are not restricted from selling of user data to third parties, while EU companies are.
- telmich 7y ago
  I think in most countries, government can approach domestic companies to hand over data in case of illegal action. The problem with the US is that data is being used against you, like recent events have shown.
- tomxor 7y ago
  This is not speculation it's first hand opinion, I am from the UK, i distrust all UK ISPs, their DNS is filth and they are suspected of working with GCHQ... I agree US companies and US law in general are worse for data protection than the EU, but on per company basis CF is more trustworthy and half of the purpose of their DNS is to attempt to provide more privicy.

notyourday 7y ago

> I don't think anyone believes CF will start selling data, that's not what the article argues. CF is not a private company funded by a foundation with a time until the funding runs out measured in 30-40 years. It is a public company with a small number of customers that provide majority of its revenue. It simply isn't prudent to say that it won't explore other revenue streams in future and that monetization of data won't be one of those streams.

askmike 7y ago
Good point. I meant there is no reason to dispute the article because it talks about CF monetizing that data. Because it doesn't.