7 ms·

I'm from the EU and I firmly believe that some level of regulation is a healthy development. GDPR, the cookie prompts and Article 13 are terrible though. There

I'm from the EU and I firmly believe that some level of regulation is a healthy development. GDPR, the cookie prompts and Article 13 are terrible though. There is no/slim real improvement to privacy and the costs are off the charts. It would have been better to spend those resources on education, healthcare, basic research or space travel. Such a crazy ongoing waste.

te_chris 7y ago
That is just not true. In the UK at least, the ICO has begun prosecutions for breaches. There is, to me at least, a real change in awareness among devs about privacy and data security. Surely a sign it's working.
- lawtalkinghuman 7y ago
  The ICO have prosecuted for breaches under pre-GDPR data protection law. The difference is the damages under DPA were statutorily limited to £500,000. GDPR fines are way higher than that and so it is actually worth pursuing violators.
spiderfarmer 7y ago
GDPR is far (very far) from perfect, but it already has done wonders for big corporations. Where normally data would simply be shared (I received entire customer databases via e-mail), people now stop and wonder "Should we share this data? Do we have permission? Do we really need to store this?".
DCKing 7y ago
I agree that Article 13 is a major misfiring. I really hate that narrative though where Article 13 and GDPR are lumped together as a "EU regulation bad" narrative. One (Article 13) is a major product of corporate lobbyism and misguided profits protection, the other (GDPR) is a major protection for consumers. They couldn't be more different. As a EU citizen and person directly involved with GDPR consequences, I also strongly disagree with the view that GDPR is either ineffective or not worth it.
- makomk 7y ago
  The trouble is that the people with power in the EU don't see this difference. They're convinced that Article 13 and the GDPR are both victories for the people against big tech, and that all the ordinary people who oppose Article 13 have just been tricked by Google into going against their own interests: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190215/18005841607/eu-commission-decides-to-mock-public-insists-fears-about-eu-copyright-directive-are-all-myths.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190215/18005841607/eu-co... The media are naturally happy to go along with the big tech vs people narrative too. The BBC even ran an article about all the great things the European Parliament has achieved in the run-up to the European elections that described Article 13 as one of its successes and summarized the controversy as follows: "Supporters say the rule helps to ensure that artists, musicians and other creators are fairly compensated. But tech companies say it will destroy user-generated content." They pretended the remarkable public backlash which got many MEPs (though not enough) to vote against it just didn't exist, turning a demonstration of how little say the public had into a success story for European democracy. It's not like this was even a European Parliament achievement in the first place; the details of the bill were dictated by Germany and France and MEPs merely ignored voters' complaints to rubber-stamp it.
- repolfx 7y ago
  You're not an EU citizen. The EU doesn't grant citizenship. GDPR doesn't do anything for consumers except annoy them. The vast majority, and I do mean the vast majority of consumers, don't care about internet "privacy" - as defined by web geeks - even one tiny bit. Most users actually want not only tech firms but the entire world to know what they had for dinner last night, what their favourite TV shows are and what random thought popped into their head 30 seconds ago. Products that focus on privacy all fail in the market because nobody cares. The idea that the EU has to protect people by passing ultra-vague "privacy" laws is paternalistic nonsense. It no more enhances my privacy or my life than clicking through a million cookie warnings has done: I have exactly the same amount of privacy as before, but now my internet experience sucks. Does anyone in the Commission care? No, why would they? They got to tell themselves they did something good today, whilst ignoring that they did nothing of value. Let's be clear again: nobody cares about internet privacy. In the EU's own polling the top concerns people in Europe have are: 1. Terrorism 2. Immigration 3. The economy/jobs/state of government finances The orderings of these move around over time but the top 3 are pretty stable. This year year climate change appeared too. Internet privacy/online advertising doesn't appear anywhere in the list of top concerns. Go look at the Eurobarometer results and see for yourself. So why is the EU spending so much time on this? Because they don't want to tackle people's actual concerns: they either don't know how or what people want is incompatible with EU ideology. For instance Immigration is still the biggest concern people have by far, but the EU wants lots more of it so the people's concerns will be ignored.
icebraining 7y ago
OK, so what level of regulation would you like to see?
peteretep 7y ago
I can’t and won’t go into details, but the large companies I’m familiar with have largely completely overhauled how they treat customer data for the better as a result of GDPR.
- distances 7y ago
  I agree. GDPR is taken seriously, and there has been massive changes for better privacy as a result. It's not a facade.
renjimen 7y ago
It was never going to work perfectly at first time of trying, especially when the industry is already mature and is set in its ways. As experience continues and education in privacy matters continue then I am confident things will get better. It has to, because privacy is important, so at least it's high on the agenda in one part of the world. P.S. One of the benefits of the website tracking prompts is that if I can't turn off all tracking right there and then on the page then I know that that company treats visitors as the product, not the customer.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  And how do you know that you can turn off all of the tracking then and there?
  - renjimen 7y ago
    Well true, I don't know enough about tracking to say for sure, but I'm much more likely to trust a website if they don't obfuscate the options to turn off tracking.
ht_th 7y ago
I like the GDPR. Since its introduction, removing my account and data has gotten easy. More importantly, in my experience people and organizations have started to ask for (irrelevant) personal information less and less. Furthermore, I now can ask them why and for what they want that information and I get a reasonable answer or it appears they do not need it anyway. Before I often got answers like "That is required", "Everyone needs to do this", "This is a government regulation" (almost never true), or "Because the system needs it", and it was difficult to get out of under it. Personally I also like the GDPR and cookie walls on websites. When I get one I cannot get rid off by clicking "Decline" or something, most often I decide to not use that website after all. I do not feel I am missing anything and I see a lot less crap during my internet searches.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  GDPR is spam in its own way and its unessecary burden on smaller companies.
StreamBright 7y ago
I disagree. Just like with pretty much every aspect of life governments are lagged behind with regulation. It used to be not required wearing a seatbelt while driving a car. Now it is. It used to be that Google and Facebook could use anything they wanted to conduct unwarranted surveillance on you, not it is getting harder and harder.

te_chris 7y ago

That is just not true. In the UK at least, the ICO has begun prosecutions for breaches. There is, to me at least, a real change in awareness among devs about privacy and data security. Surely a sign it's working.

lawtalkinghuman 7y ago
The ICO have prosecuted for breaches under pre-GDPR data protection law. The difference is the damages under DPA were statutorily limited to £500,000. GDPR fines are way higher than that and so it is actually worth pursuing violators.

spiderfarmer 7y ago

GDPR is far (very far) from perfect, but it already has done wonders for big corporations. Where normally data would simply be shared (I received entire customer databases via e-mail), people now stop and wonder "Should we share this data? Do we have permission? Do we really need to store this?".

DCKing 7y ago

I agree that Article 13 is a major misfiring. I really hate that narrative though where Article 13 and GDPR are lumped together as a "EU regulation bad" narrative. One (Article 13) is a major product of corporate lobbyism and misguided profits protection, the other (GDPR) is a major protection for consumers. They couldn't be more different. As a EU citizen and person directly involved with GDPR consequences, I also strongly disagree with the view that GDPR is either ineffective or not worth it.

makomk 7y ago
The trouble is that the people with power in the EU don't see this difference. They're convinced that Article 13 and the GDPR are both victories for the people against big tech, and that all the ordinary people who oppose Article 13 have just been tricked by Google into going against their own interests: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190215/18005841607/eu-commission-decides-to-mock-public-insists-fears-about-eu-copyright-directive-are-all-myths.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190215/18005841607/eu-co... The media are naturally happy to go along with the big tech vs people narrative too. The BBC even ran an article about all the great things the European Parliament has achieved in the run-up to the European elections that described Article 13 as one of its successes and summarized the controversy as follows: "Supporters say the rule helps to ensure that artists, musicians and other creators are fairly compensated. But tech companies say it will destroy user-generated content." They pretended the remarkable public backlash which got many MEPs (though not enough) to vote against it just didn't exist, turning a demonstration of how little say the public had into a success story for European democracy. It's not like this was even a European Parliament achievement in the first place; the details of the bill were dictated by Germany and France and MEPs merely ignored voters' complaints to rubber-stamp it.
repolfx 7y ago
You're not an EU citizen. The EU doesn't grant citizenship. GDPR doesn't do anything for consumers except annoy them. The vast majority, and I do mean the vast majority of consumers, don't care about internet "privacy" - as defined by web geeks - even one tiny bit. Most users actually want not only tech firms but the entire world to know what they had for dinner last night, what their favourite TV shows are and what random thought popped into their head 30 seconds ago. Products that focus on privacy all fail in the market because nobody cares. The idea that the EU has to protect people by passing ultra-vague "privacy" laws is paternalistic nonsense. It no more enhances my privacy or my life than clicking through a million cookie warnings has done: I have exactly the same amount of privacy as before, but now my internet experience sucks. Does anyone in the Commission care? No, why would they? They got to tell themselves they did something good today, whilst ignoring that they did nothing of value. Let's be clear again: nobody cares about internet privacy. In the EU's own polling the top concerns people in Europe have are: 1. Terrorism 2. Immigration 3. The economy/jobs/state of government finances The orderings of these move around over time but the top 3 are pretty stable. This year year climate change appeared too. Internet privacy/online advertising doesn't appear anywhere in the list of top concerns. Go look at the Eurobarometer results and see for yourself. So why is the EU spending so much time on this? Because they don't want to tackle people's actual concerns: they either don't know how or what people want is incompatible with EU ideology. For instance Immigration is still the biggest concern people have by far, but the EU wants lots more of it so the people's concerns will be ignored.

icebraining 7y ago

OK, so what level of regulation would you like to see?

peteretep 7y ago

I can’t and won’t go into details, but the large companies I’m familiar with have largely completely overhauled how they treat customer data for the better as a result of GDPR.

distances 7y ago
I agree. GDPR is taken seriously, and there has been massive changes for better privacy as a result. It's not a facade.

renjimen 7y ago

It was never going to work perfectly at first time of trying, especially when the industry is already mature and is set in its ways. As experience continues and education in privacy matters continue then I am confident things will get better. It has to, because privacy is important, so at least it's high on the agenda in one part of the world. P.S. One of the benefits of the website tracking prompts is that if I can't turn off all tracking right there and then on the page then I know that that company treats visitors as the product, not the customer.

Mirioron 7y ago
And how do you know that you can turn off all of the tracking then and there?
- renjimen 7y ago
  Well true, I don't know enough about tracking to say for sure, but I'm much more likely to trust a website if they don't obfuscate the options to turn off tracking.

ht_th 7y ago

I like the GDPR. Since its introduction, removing my account and data has gotten easy. More importantly, in my experience people and organizations have started to ask for (irrelevant) personal information less and less. Furthermore, I now can ask them why and for what they want that information and I get a reasonable answer or it appears they do not need it anyway. Before I often got answers like "That is required", "Everyone needs to do this", "This is a government regulation" (almost never true), or "Because the system needs it", and it was difficult to get out of under it. Personally I also like the GDPR and cookie walls on websites. When I get one I cannot get rid off by clicking "Decline" or something, most often I decide to not use that website after all. I do not feel I am missing anything and I see a lot less crap during my internet searches.

ThomPete 7y ago
GDPR is spam in its own way and its unessecary burden on smaller companies.

StreamBright 7y ago

I disagree. Just like with pretty much every aspect of life governments are lagged behind with regulation. It used to be not required wearing a seatbelt while driving a car. Now it is. It used to be that Google and Facebook could use anything they wanted to conduct unwarranted surveillance on you, not it is getting harder and harder.