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> Can you honestly say that you can't speak freely in Spain? Yes, I believe you can. Where to start? The disgusting re-appearance of political prisoners in Spa

> Can you honestly say that you can't speak freely in Spain? Yes, I believe you can. Where to start? The disgusting re-appearance of political prisoners in Spain, for Catalan leaders expressing the idea that Catalunya should determine its own destiny, while Spanish politicos laughably and hypocritically complain about the same in Venezuela (but to the twisted fascist mind, their political prisoners are just 'criminals' - I'm sure Maduro would use the same justification). The destruction of an edition of the Jueves comic drawing that showed the (then) prince earning a childrearing grant having sex with his wife. A rapper in exile to avoid being remanded for singing about the king. Plenty of other examples. No, free speech is not protected in Spain, quite the reverse.

squeezingswirls 7y ago
Sorry but that is not true at all. There aren't 'political prisoners' by any means in Spain. There are politicians in prison, and that's quite different. Their imprisonment without bail follows the Spanish Law, based on democratic principles, and it's quite dishonourable to compare Spain and Venezuela political situations. On the other hand, nobody destroyed any edition of 'El Jueves', please see https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/Jueves-retira-ejemplares-portada-abdicacion_0_267723757.html https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/Jueves-retira-ejemplares-po... Every cover is available even online, even the controversial ones https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/834078228541165568 https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/834078228541165568 They make fun of the Catalonian nationalists too by the way https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/1171369631786917888 https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/1171369631786917888 About Valtonyc, the rapper you're talking about 'in exile to avoid being remanded for singing about the king' that's not true. He was judged and sentenced to 3 and a half years of prison for 'crimes of threats, insults to the Crown, and glorification of terrorism'. To avoid going to prison, he fled. Yes, free speech is well protected in Spain.
- guiriduro 7y ago
  > There aren't 'political prisoners' by any means in Spain. There are politicians in prison, and that's quite different. >> to the twisted fascist mind, their political prisoners are just 'criminals' QED
  - squeezingswirls 7y ago
    Is that your 'argument'? Insults? Maybe you should think about why you can't prove your point of view, and why you need to resort to name-calling.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Sorry but that is not true at all. There aren't 'political prisoners' by any means in Spain. There are politicians in prison, and that's quite different. Unless they are in prison because e.g. they were driving under influence, or stealing money, or hit someone, or some other such crime, then it's not different at all... >About Valtonyc, the rapper you're talking about 'in exile to avoid being remanded for singing about the king' that's not true. He was judged and sentenced to 3 and a half years of prison for 'crimes of threats, insults to the Crown, and glorification of terrorism'. To avoid going to prison, he fled. That is supposed to be a refutation of what the parent wrote?
  - squeezingswirls 7y ago
    They aren't in preventive prison due to their political ideas but they're being accused of committing very specific and serious crimes, like rebellion, sedition, and embezzlement. The whole trial has been live streamed. About your second question, making threats, insulting the Crown, and glorification of terrorism is not just 'singing about the king'. That's not free speech.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >They aren't in preventive prison due to their political ideas but they're being accused of committing very specific and serious crimes, like rebellion, sedition, and embezzlement. Well, rebellion and sedition _are_ political ideas. Political ideas are not just "more taxes/less taxes", or "healthcare for all/private healthcare" and other regular everyday party differences. And of course, the kind of political ideas political prisoners all over the world get in jail for in regimes that stifle political expression are more often than not branded "rebellion", "sedition", by those putting them there... >The whole trial has been live streamed. Well, the Moscow trials of Stalin were well reported to the masses as well. That's neither here, nor there. >About your second question, making threats, insulting the Crown, and glorification of terrorism is not just 'singing about the king'. Sure. But wanting the king dethroned (if not beheaded, for effect) is a totally legit political idea, that was part of most countries progressing to real civic democracy, and people and politicians should be able to express it. In a modern democracy, if it must have some relic of feudal times in the form of a decorative king, said king shouldn't still be anything sacred. "and glorification of terrorism" there's no shortage of regimes that labeled anything they didn't like "terrorism". Heck, the British would also be offended by Americans in the colonies "insulting and threatening the King" and called their fighting terrorism, so there's that. Just because a regime exists, doesn't mean protecting it is just or should continue to exist.
- mthoms 7y ago
  >Yes, free speech is well protected in Spain. Except when it isn't. Articles 490 and 491 of the criminal code govern lèse-majesté. Any person who defames or insults the king, the queen, their ancestors or their descendants can be imprisoned for up to two years Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté

squeezingswirls 7y ago

Sorry but that is not true at all. There aren't 'political prisoners' by any means in Spain. There are politicians in prison, and that's quite different. Their imprisonment without bail follows the Spanish Law, based on democratic principles, and it's quite dishonourable to compare Spain and Venezuela political situations. On the other hand, nobody destroyed any edition of 'El Jueves', please see https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/Jueves-retira-ejemplares-portada-abdicacion_0_267723757.html https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/Jueves-retira-ejemplares-po... Every cover is available even online, even the controversial ones https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/834078228541165568 https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/834078228541165568 They make fun of the Catalonian nationalists too by the way https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/1171369631786917888 https://twitter.com/eljueves/status/1171369631786917888 About Valtonyc, the rapper you're talking about 'in exile to avoid being remanded for singing about the king' that's not true. He was judged and sentenced to 3 and a half years of prison for 'crimes of threats, insults to the Crown, and glorification of terrorism'. To avoid going to prison, he fled. Yes, free speech is well protected in Spain.

guiriduro 7y ago
> There aren't 'political prisoners' by any means in Spain. There are politicians in prison, and that's quite different. >> to the twisted fascist mind, their political prisoners are just 'criminals' QED
- squeezingswirls 7y ago
  Is that your 'argument'? Insults? Maybe you should think about why you can't prove your point of view, and why you need to resort to name-calling.
coldtea 7y ago
>Sorry but that is not true at all. There aren't 'political prisoners' by any means in Spain. There are politicians in prison, and that's quite different. Unless they are in prison because e.g. they were driving under influence, or stealing money, or hit someone, or some other such crime, then it's not different at all... >About Valtonyc, the rapper you're talking about 'in exile to avoid being remanded for singing about the king' that's not true. He was judged and sentenced to 3 and a half years of prison for 'crimes of threats, insults to the Crown, and glorification of terrorism'. To avoid going to prison, he fled. That is supposed to be a refutation of what the parent wrote?
- squeezingswirls 7y ago
  They aren't in preventive prison due to their political ideas but they're being accused of committing very specific and serious crimes, like rebellion, sedition, and embezzlement. The whole trial has been live streamed. About your second question, making threats, insulting the Crown, and glorification of terrorism is not just 'singing about the king'. That's not free speech.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >They aren't in preventive prison due to their political ideas but they're being accused of committing very specific and serious crimes, like rebellion, sedition, and embezzlement. Well, rebellion and sedition _are_ political ideas. Political ideas are not just "more taxes/less taxes", or "healthcare for all/private healthcare" and other regular everyday party differences. And of course, the kind of political ideas political prisoners all over the world get in jail for in regimes that stifle political expression are more often than not branded "rebellion", "sedition", by those putting them there... >The whole trial has been live streamed. Well, the Moscow trials of Stalin were well reported to the masses as well. That's neither here, nor there. >About your second question, making threats, insulting the Crown, and glorification of terrorism is not just 'singing about the king'. Sure. But wanting the king dethroned (if not beheaded, for effect) is a totally legit political idea, that was part of most countries progressing to real civic democracy, and people and politicians should be able to express it. In a modern democracy, if it must have some relic of feudal times in the form of a decorative king, said king shouldn't still be anything sacred. "and glorification of terrorism" there's no shortage of regimes that labeled anything they didn't like "terrorism". Heck, the British would also be offended by Americans in the colonies "insulting and threatening the King" and called their fighting terrorism, so there's that. Just because a regime exists, doesn't mean protecting it is just or should continue to exist.
mthoms 7y ago
>Yes, free speech is well protected in Spain. Except when it isn't. Articles 490 and 491 of the criminal code govern lèse-majesté. Any person who defames or insults the king, the queen, their ancestors or their descendants can be imprisoned for up to two years Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté