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I think that was actually part of the original plan, China didn't have to agree to the two system thing, but Deng chose to do it. China under Deng's leadership

I think that was actually part of the original plan, China didn't have to agree to the two system thing, but Deng chose to do it. China under Deng's leadership was very bold on testing big policy changes, from various special development zones, to limited experiment with democracy in HK. Sadly several key reformists had to resign after Tiananmen massacre, so when Deng stepped down, the more conservative forces took over and have been dominating since.

baylearn 7y ago
I'd argue that had also things have been going in that direction (to some extent), before Xi Jinping assumed power in late 2012.
- xurias 7y ago
  Deng stepped down in '92, so sure, it's been something that's been developing before Xi Jinping.
bakuninsbart 7y ago
Small correction: Tiananmen protests started in part because of the death of one of the biggest reformist voices in the Polit Buro, Hu Yaobang. Other reformers were sidelined during the protests. Basically, in the beginning many voices in the CCP and Deng Xiaoping himself were sympathetic to the protests, but as they dragged on and more radical voices gained ground with demands like opening the country and introducing free elections, the tides in the upper (and lower) branches of the CCP turned against the reformers. It is also interesting to note that while the reformers have been mostly side-lined since then, and Xi especially is a hard-right hardliner, the party is still at least paying lip-service to reformers. - For example one of the key policy goals of the last 5-year plan was to continue to develop Hong Kong into a global financial centre and broadly liberalize the chinese economy.
- pishpash 7y ago
  And HK protestors are making the same mistake, radicals have taken over.
  - wtdata 7y ago
    Demanding due process and civil liberties is not radical, it's just following the UN chart for human rights. EDIT: The immediate downvote of any pro HK civil liberties comment continues on HN and still @dang, instead of looking into the real issue and into the number of new accounts created on HN to specifically support the PoC in these threads, chastises whoever points what is happening.
    - ndidi 7y ago
      The UN chart for "human rights" is not some kind of holy scripture.
      - PavlovsCat 7y ago
        Just calling all these people from all walks of life "radicals" doesn't even pass the smell test either way. https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medicial_professionals_singing_do_you_hear/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medic... You can give up your own human rights however you wish, but not those of others on their behalf. https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind... edit: wow, I dropped 14 karma in a 13 minutes of posting this comment, because apparently one or more people are going through older of mine comments and downvoting anything that can still can be voted on. That's actually the first time in over 6 years that happened.
      - wtdata 7y ago
        It is a document ratified with the agreement of China. https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind...
    - pishpash 7y ago

baylearn 7y ago

I'd argue that had also things have been going in that direction (to some extent), before Xi Jinping assumed power in late 2012.

xurias 7y ago
Deng stepped down in '92, so sure, it's been something that's been developing before Xi Jinping.

bakuninsbart 7y ago

Small correction: Tiananmen protests started in part because of the death of one of the biggest reformist voices in the Polit Buro, Hu Yaobang. Other reformers were sidelined during the protests. Basically, in the beginning many voices in the CCP and Deng Xiaoping himself were sympathetic to the protests, but as they dragged on and more radical voices gained ground with demands like opening the country and introducing free elections, the tides in the upper (and lower) branches of the CCP turned against the reformers. It is also interesting to note that while the reformers have been mostly side-lined since then, and Xi especially is a hard-right hardliner, the party is still at least paying lip-service to reformers. - For example one of the key policy goals of the last 5-year plan was to continue to develop Hong Kong into a global financial centre and broadly liberalize the chinese economy.

pishpash 7y ago
And HK protestors are making the same mistake, radicals have taken over.
- wtdata 7y ago
  Demanding due process and civil liberties is not radical, it's just following the UN chart for human rights. EDIT: The immediate downvote of any pro HK civil liberties comment continues on HN and still @dang, instead of looking into the real issue and into the number of new accounts created on HN to specifically support the PoC in these threads, chastises whoever points what is happening.
  - ndidi 7y ago
    The UN chart for "human rights" is not some kind of holy scripture.
    - PavlovsCat 7y ago
      Just calling all these people from all walks of life "radicals" doesn't even pass the smell test either way. https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medicial_professionals_singing_do_you_hear/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medic... You can give up your own human rights however you wish, but not those of others on their behalf. https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind... edit: wow, I dropped 14 karma in a 13 minutes of posting this comment, because apparently one or more people are going through older of mine comments and downvoting anything that can still can be voted on. That's actually the first time in over 6 years that happened.
    - wtdata 7y ago
      It is a document ratified with the agreement of China. https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind...
  - pishpash 7y ago